We've lost our edge

[WstateU]

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[ShockerFever]

Very important during the great run for sure.

But, if you'll recall, for one of the seminal wins on that great run, and that would be against the Chickens, Jans wasn't even a part of the Shocker coaching staff.

Great point. Also, last year, if you recall, we lucked our way into 25+ wins, a near conference title, and a 4 seed in the NCAA's without his services as well.

[ShockerFever]

Slippery slope to mediocrity?

We were a 4 seed in the tourney last year, was a basket away from a conference title, 25+ wins, and ranked around the Top 10 all year.

You're acting like we've been trending downward for years.

What a joke. You're worse than CBB.

[proshox]

I don’t associate with anybody in Crestway.

[proshox]

Maybe we should ask why things were allowed to get toxic enough to run off a player like Austin...

[proshox]

I am not worried about this year. It was always “Mission Impossible - Sans Landry and Austin.”

The real concern is how did we get on the slippery slope to mediocrity and will this group of players and coaches find some traction.

[proshox]

A big piece is HCGM’s willingness to trust assistants. It takes time and we are starting over. This will get better as the season moves forward.

[ShockingButTrue]

The theory that I don't like to think about is the presence of Chris Jans and how important he was for the great run. In two years he has rebuilt NMSU into something resembling the those Shocker teams.

Very important during the great run for sure.

But, if you'll recall, for one of the seminal wins on that great run, and that would be against the Chickens, Jans wasn't even a part of the Shocker coaching staff.

[ShockerFever]

we should be putting 3 or 4 guys at or above McDuyffie's skill and BBIQ level on the court. There are none of that type of player on the roster. Maybe some of the young guys will get there, but they're far from that now - and now is when we need them.y replace. That hasn't really been the pattern very often.

Um, MM doesn't have the greatest BBIQ level out there so you're setting the bar pretty low. We have a few players now that are on par, if not, better in that department at the moment and will definitely improve as the years go on.

[C0|dB|00ded]

I can't speak for others but this isn't a single-game meltdown for me. I saw some really weird and unfamiliar **** at the start of last season too and it persisted throughout the year. I witnessed a kind of defense (poor) as well as a lack of toughness foreign to previous Marshall squads. This has been going on for two years now. I just chose this game to vent because... why not? A clear pattern has formed.

Last year we won a lot of games, this year we won't win a lot but both seasons are uncomfortably similar in many respects. Last year Marshall's tone after poor performances was one of resignation rather than the typical outrage and promises of hell to pay. I was shocked by this new kindler, gentler tone and even floated a theory on the AAC board that he was attempting to change the culture of Shocker basketball to a more offensive orientated style for the AAC.

My only other theory (which was going to remain close to the vest) was that Marshall was getting... ummm... soft. I did offer up that his assistants were likely no help either sitting on the bench with their thumbs up their butts. Now I hear after yesterday's game Marshall was issuing threats of immediately recruiting for players that could shoot? I have no problem threatening death by line drills but you're going to motivate young freshman by telling them at the start of the year they're going to get replaced if they don't produce? That's not strategic nor helpful IMO. These kids need to be broken down and built back up the Marshall way but they don't need to hear that the coach doesn't have their back.


T


...:cool:

[Aargh]

This thread is a perfect symbol of the fallacy of expecting a top-3 AAC finish and being on the NCAA bubble with a team returning one player of any significance.

We, as fans, had several years to see this season on the horizon. There was a class of 6 guys moving through the system and there were only 3 guys on the roster that were in any kind of a position to replace those 6. Those 3 were McDuffie, Shamet, and Reaves. That meant that 3 of the top 6 rotation spots were going to be filled by first-year players. That may have worked in the MVC, but not at the levels where WSU fans want (and now expect) the Shox to compete.

Shamet has some great basketball IQ and could easily think that his NBA draft potential would evaporate if he were to play on this year's team, so he left. Anybody want to be Reaves seeing all the departures and then look at how badly you would want to play with what was left?

The big class and the massive changes in the coaching staff created a perfect storm to destroy Shocker basketball this year. 8 guys in the So class next year is a warning flag about the size of an aircraft carrier. Teddy Buckets won't be scoring at the rim if defenses don't have to guard the 3-point line

To maintain anything resembling the last several years, we should be putting 3 or 4 guys at or above McDuyffie's skill and BBIQ level on the court. There are none of that type of player on the roster. Maybe some of the young guys will get there, but they're far from that now - and now is when we need them.

The Jr class is JuCo's and we normally don't expect a lot of production from JuCo's until second semester. The So class is Midtgaard. Even without Shamet and Reaves leaving, the So and Jr classes this year would have had only 2 productive players. That's a formula for disaster for a team that likes to play 9 deep.

Since the F4 we've gotten McDuffie and Shamet. We got Reaves because no one else really wanted the always injured small town player. We got Morris because he was seen as a project that would use 4 or 5 years of scholarships for one or two years of production. We also got a couple of athletic guys (Brown and Kelly) who couldn't (or at least didn't - it seems they can make baskets in Europe this year) put the ball in the basket.

The 2020 recruiting class better be mighty fine. We need some upgrades. The upgrades need to be better than the transfer-outs that they replace. That hasn't really been the pattern very often.

[im4wsu]

This is a throw away season

Dare -- double dare -- you to say that to Marshall, to his face.

[shoxrox89]

This is a throw away season

[WuShocker2006]

Some of you are out of control. We are 8 games into a season with mostly new players, most of which are freshman. Slow your freaking roll. We haven't been in this territory before. Give it a little more time. 3G is still 3G.

[ShockTalk]

@C0|dB|00ded, I'll continue our discussion from the previous page too here.

My point was, assuming both teams (UK and SH) were working hard, that good talent with experience can make up for great talent that's inexperienced. That's what happened today with SH beating UK.

WSU is a long, long ways from UK's talent and is even less experienced. OU has good talent (probably better than SH) and very experienced (more than SH). Assuming both teams were working hard, the chances for WSU were slim to keep it less than double digits to begin with, much less to win. We saw the Jekyll and Hyde of our team against Baylor. Today, on the road, it was much the same. We played a reasonable 1st half, horrible 2nd half. Of course, good experienced teams can make halftime adjustments much easier than a team that are doing all they can to just hang on in the 1st half. Sometimes, that inexperience without solid floor leadership can look like they're not trying. I just believe that's the case with this team.