FBI Corruption Probe

[Cdizzle]

I give a rat's ass. There are rules. I would like the team and players I choose to cheer on to adhere to them.

It isn't that hard.

[Horn28Clem30]

Amen, albeit a minor infraction it seems on the surface, it puts a terrible taste in my mouth right now.

[ShockerPrez]

I think the outcome is going to be the needed changes regarding players getting paid. There is part of me that thinks this activity is perfectly fine. They are getting wined and dined like a lot of potential clients in the normal business world. The problem is they arent amatuer any longer...

Also, while I get that these are NCAA violations in as much as the players arent amatuers after having taken payments, and thus ineligible, there doesnt seem to be any institutional violations other than letting them play (if the school knew).

And aside from possible tax evasion, is there anything in the legal legal world that says this stuff is illegal? What charges is the FBI going to be bringing against the agents as it relates to paying potential clients (students and their families)

Honestly, i think the NCAA is going to say, "Ok, from now on...."

[wheathead]

If FVV did this. It isn't right. Period. Because of the rules. Doesn't matter if everyone is doing it. With that said...there is a chasm of a difference between what FVV and his family did versus a high school kid, who hasn't declared what school he's going to yet. One is preparing himself to become a professional, the other could be seen as lining him up with the "right" college.

[BostonWu]

Fred gets 1k stepdad gets additional 2k from sports agent towards the end of his WSU career. How the hell is the school supposed to monitor this? You think Fred or stepdad informed anyone within the program this happened? It's not like you're going to be able to detect a lifestyle change with this kind of handout. Seriously I don't know how anyone could detect or stop this.

[Dan]

Disappointed? Why are people disappointed? God forbid someone take money they may need that is not illegal to take. Also I'm going to be real honest, I wouldn't be shocked if we had a bag man making sure needs are taken care of for the players. I know we want to act like we are on a pedestal above this, but we are trying to compete nationally, and I am going to make a strong guess that most nationally relevant programs are doing this. Now maybe we are entirely clean, it's certainly possible, or maybe the university and the staff are entirely unwitting(this is most likely). At some point we need to decide if we want to allow players to monetize for their abilities, whether that's based on giving them back the rights to their image or pay from schools I don't know. But there is obvious a market and a demand, players keep getting paid. Revenue sports keep making more and more money, and as do coaches and staff, yet players are supposed to be satisfied with tuition they may not need or want.

I would be shocked if we have a bag man. If that is true, you are saying 3G is an unscrupulous liar, as he makes it a point to always say his staff is squeaky clean. I know they all say that, but I choose to believe we have one of the good guys on our team.

[wheathead]

Fred gets 1k stepdad gets additional 2k from sports agent towards the end of his WSU career. How the hell is the school supposed to monitor this? You think Fred or stepdad informed anyone within the program this happened? It's not like you're going to be able to detect a lifestyle change with this kind of handout. Seriously I don't know how anyone could detect or stop this.

And THAT is the kicker. Rules have to be inforceable. There is NO WAY to inforce this from a university perspective.

[Dan]

Fred gets 1k stepdad gets additional 2k from sports agent towards the end of his WSU career. How the hell is the school supposed to monitor this? You think Fred or stepdad informed anyone within the program this happened? It's not like you're going to be able to detect a lifestyle change with this kind of handout. Seriously I don't know how anyone could detect or stop this.

Futher to that point, how is it illegal or even unethical for anyone to take out a loan to cover certain expenses, such as travel, while preparing for their career? Does it matter if the loan is from a bank, credit card company, title loan, loan shark, or agent? Not sure how you clean that up.

[RoyalShock]

Because those loans don't also come with an additional expectation beyond just paying the money back, such as signing a contract with an agent.

[DUShock]

There is no good way to spin this and it is bad for the program.

[Cdizzle]

Yep.

[WichitaStateGuy]

Agreed... Disappointed to say the least.

[ShockerDropOut]

Completely agree.

[wheathead]

There is no good way to spin this and it is bad for the program.

And THIS is the sad part. Most people aren't going to know the details or care. They just see WSU's name and the story about FVV cheating and just lump them together. Perception rules, just ask CNN.
It also made me immediately wonder if because of this we will ever see Fred's number hanging from the rafters in the Roundhouse.

[RoyalShock]

This is absolutely true. I'm already seeing lots of "Wichita State paid players" tweets. Yes, it's twitter, but that is the takeaway by a lot of people who won't care enough to get the facts.

[Aargh]

This seems to break down into 3 types of problems

1) A player took illegal payments during his playing career without the knowledge of the institution. Probable penalty: Player declared ineligible at the time the payment was made. Wins after that are vacated. Current players lose amateur status.

2) A player took illegal payments before entering college without the knowledge of the school. Probable penalty: All wins that player played in are vacated. Current players lose amateur status.

3) Player took money in a situation pre-arranged with the school's coaching staff or athletic department. The money was tied to representation by an agent AND enrolling at a specified or "approved" program. Probable penalty: Major infraction.

There is a precedent that I remember because of its size and publicity. That's Reggie Bush, football player at USC. He and his family got over $500,000 from an agent. The ruling came out after Bush had gone to the NFL. NCAA ruled Bush ineligible for participation (pointless - he was already gone) and USC had to vacate wins.

Proving a player got money is one thing. Proving the athletic department at his school was complicit is another thing, and much more difficult to prove.

This just goes to show that we should probably think twice before we throw stones at those we think are cheating. KU is in this up to their eyeballs. Unless there is some proof that the athletic department at KU was involved with the payments or had an arrangement with a third party to pay players, then they have done nothing more than WSU has done. They've just benefitted from it to a far greater extent because of their brand.

[shock]

Fred and his family just bought his banner out of the rafters for $3k. This makes me terribly sad.

[proshox]

yep

[moshock]

Or future coach ......very sad

[Topshock]

We have had this discussion before but unless we are going to lower the standards for having a number retired it wouldn’t have been retired anyway —- not a first team all-American.

Will he even get in Shocker Hall of Fame at this point?

[Play Angry]

Fred and his family just bought his banner out of the rafters for $3k. This makes me terribly sad.

Same thought occurred to me as well. So disappointing.

[Singeril]

God the holier than thou crowd on here is ridiculous.

looks like Fred’s step dad got paid by an agent to fly to SGF to visit and see his son play basketball.

Who gives a rat’s ass.

the only reason everyone feels so bad about it is because they are conditioned to think this is the worst thing ever. It happens. Move on.

My opinion of a Fred WILL NOT change because of this.

It’s NOT “Holier than thou” to be disappointed in one who put his own “needs” over that of the team. One can still admire his talents and gifts without being completely satisfied with actions. His actions have jeopardized wins and reputation. Yes, that is disappointing.

[Shocktoberfest]

And THIS is the sad part. Most people aren't going to know the details or care. They just see WSU's name and the story about FVV cheating and just lump them together. Perception rules, just ask CNN.
It also made me immediately wonder if because of this we will ever see Fred's number hanging from the rafters in the Roundhouse.

Yep. That is the immediate fallout. This certainly greatly reduces the chances his jersey is retired. That just doesn't seem right.

[WuShock16]

NM

[Dan]

I think this is a little too much of a knew jerk reaction, How many guys in the Duke or UNC rafter do you think took money? What about AC or X Man? Just because people weren’t caught doesn’t make them clean.

[Shox The Revenant]

The more I think about this the more relaxed I'm becoming. Based on the limited info we have, it appears FVV and his father dealt with the agent exclusively without the knowledge or assistance by any WSU employee. The NCAA has already set a precedent by clearing a program when the coaching staff was unaware of impermissible benefits. Just look up what happened to Duke's Corey Maggette back in 2000. Corey admitted to receiving cash from a booster that the NCAA investigated that threatened to vacate Duke's 2000 Final Four appearance. At the end of the day, Duke was never punished after the NCAA investigation revealed Duke coaches were unaware of the payments to Maggette. Hopefully, this is what will happen to us.

[wheathead]

But we don't have a name brand like Duke.