WSU at Temple Game Thread

[ripemupshocks]

[ISASO]

What i would give for evan or graham

We seem to pretend like we're still in the Valley, where we would wait around for the other team to get tired, then take over.

[WSUwatcher]

Interesting observation, ISASO. WSU does NOT have "Valley players" and hasn't for a long time, and the bandwagon jumpers (jumpers-off, to be more precise) suddenly complaining that they do, need to take a few deeps breaths, come down off the ledge, and rejoin reality. You don't win 10 NCAA games over the span of five consecutive tournaments despite consistently being almost laughably underseeded, including a Final Four trip, with "Valley players."

What you can do against other teams who do have Valley players, though, is develop dangerous expectations of the type you described. It probably didn't help that they started out against some AAC weaklings who caused them to think things weren't really that much different. The Shocks need to realize -- really internalize -- that they've stepped up and aren't in the Valley any more, and they need to treat every AAC game, especially on the road, as if it were an NCAA game, and play angry from start to finish. If they do that, they'll be fine. But they can't keep getting wakeup calls forever and not wake up, or else their season will go to sleep sooner than it should.

[SHOCKvalue]

Strawman having a busy night.

[ISASO]

Austin is the only leader on the floor at this time...his moment with MM after the game proves that. HE IS THE light at the end of the tunnel for this team.

That may be true, and if it is true, that's pretty sad.

[12eagle]

For those who want to know why our guards can’t or won’t drive here is an example. Both Kelly’s and shaq’s man have a foot in the paint. There is nowhere to go and throwing it out to Kelly accomplishes nothing. Now if we were to go small and had say Frankamp here the lane or at least one side of it would be wide open. Too often we bog down our offense by playing a traditional lineup with two big men. This team has the personnel to play untraditional. Yes we would lose a few rebounds per game but our offense could go from very good to top 3 in the country. Placing elite shooters on the floor is more important than winning the rebounding battle. Take a look at the top 5 rebounding teams in the nba they consist of 3 lottery teams, a fringe playoff team, and a 5 seed. The Warriors are 18th. We must play to our strengths and this year that is elite shooting. Also the more shooters you have on the floor the easier it is for those shooters to get good shots. On defense with smaller more versatile defenders you can switch screens more often and not have slower big men trying to hedge and recover as often.

[proshox]

You complete me.

This caveman version of basketball is failing to maximize this team on both ends of the court.

[shocker43]

Austin has been our best guard recently. Conner has been terrible. Landry hasn’t been very good on either end of the floor. Samajae is good for getting blocked three times a game. Zach Brown can’t hit a shot and is getting killed on defense.

I really wish Daishon wouldn’t have transferred. He’s a better option than Samajae. He helped defensively last year. The longer this season goes, the more I think Samajae might be the one that transfers out this year.

[Shock Top]

SHJ and CJ could both be looking for new homes next season. At this point, I just don’t see either making a difference next season.

[ShockTalk]

We did out-rebound the Owls by 45-31 and had 17 assists. Here is what hurt though. We shot 30.8% from the 3-point area and we had 16 turnovers to only 10 for Temple. Temple had 11 steals and we only got 4. Shaq had 24 points and 9 rebounds and Austin scored 20 for another solid night. Austin will start next game? Dunno.

This is about as negative a post as you will ever see from this loyal Shocker fan. In it's very calm, quite way, it says volumes.

[ShockTalk]

I was only able to catch bits and pieces of tonight's game. When I was able to listen, it wasn't that good. I had to tune out at up 8-4, got back at 44-33 us, any other snip it wasn't good. I've been reading through this game thread and made a few little comments on the way, but I'll add more now.

How many here now believe HCGM misses CJ and/or GH on the bench? This is not necessarily a knock on Marshall, but you have to have quality assistants you can rely on. I've mentioned that loosing GH first then CJ could be a problem.

I had a bad feeling that this could be a real exposure game. I made no prediction, but I did say this could be a dangerous game. Temple with it's ups and downs had shown they could play with and beat top 20 teams, it was just a matter of which of their teams showed up and how their competitor could fight back.

If one hadn't noticed, I've been touting Shaq of late. I've felt that not enough on this board give him the credit he's due. Everyone has bad games and makes dumb mistakes at times (shooting some 3s at the wrong time), but Shaq, in my book, is one of our best warriors.

Someone on here made a comment about other players needing to step up so Reaves didn't need to play 3/4 of the time in tough games. I did comment why. He may not have the best physical attributes one would like to see, but he has the moxie, BBIQ, and guts to do more than his part.

Several times I have soft-peddled our best wins vs losses vs other teams in the rankings as to not ruffle feathers. After reading this thread, I'm no longer concerned about ruffled feathers.

I still believe that this team can make a run post season (assuming they get there, and they should) but they're going to have to get their confidence back, shorten the bench (or at least minutes), all of the coaching staff is going to need to do some soul searching, and certain players are going to have to understand what they are good at and avoid certain temptations.

For me, I'd like to see a smaller lineup. SM, MM, AR, CF, and LS with RK pushing MM to the 3 and AR going to the 2, even the 1 on occasions. RN and DW at the 5 on occasions. I know DW is probably better at the 4, but we're not. I really like ZB, but I'm wondering is CJ might not be a better defensive stopper (and all a round player) in spot minutes. SM, MM, AR, and LS need to have the lion's share of minutes. We're just not as deep as I thought. Some may question my MM minutes, but he is to good of talent. He did lead us in scoring and rebounding last year. I don't see any of his potential replacements coming close to that.

[AZ Shocker]

Wow ShockerNet! Wow!

We just got "elevated" to a MUCH better conference with way better coaches and players...and this is how we react about OUR TEAM?

Hold the phone.....this is exactly what we wanted. No more small time Carbondale, Terra Haute or Springfield. This is now Houston, Dallas, and PHILLY. Freakin Philly!!!

Give our players and coaches some time to "adjust". These are new waters my friends...and please...I beg you to STAY behind our Shockers!!!!!

GO SHOCKS!!!!!!

[GreatWhiteBuffalo]

Obviously the offense sucked in the 2nd half. I'm just saying you can't blame the offense for their problems this year. When you have the #1 offense in the league, you can't say we're losing these games because our offense is bad. Tonight, the offense WAS bad in the second half. Too many missed open looks and WAY too many turnovers. But saying we can't compete in this league because we don't have enough athleticism to play offense is ludicrous.

Listen. I don't buy into the "blame one aspect of a team for a loss" jazz. This entire team sucks. The players are soft, the coaches are out-of-touch (perhaps out of their depth), and all facets of the team are second-rate right now. This team can score...sometimes. I think, as a whole, the AAC is just terrible at defense. But, to try and argue that WSU is even in the same zip code as other AAC teams athletically, is a fool's errand and is, frankly, homer talk. Just watch what is happening on the court. We can't guard people because we can't keep up with them. We are a step slow to loose balls and rebounds. Just soft. No grit, no hustle, no want-to...no anger. 3G has let this team get soft and entitled. He has sacrificed the defense and toughness by trying to recruit finesse offensive players like McDuffie and, to some extent, Shamet. We have no junkyard dog as we have in the past. This is a glaring indictment of recruiting failures over the years. I view all the transfers in the past five seasons as misses in recruiting.

Every person associated with Wichtia State Men's Basketball needs to take a long look in the mirror and be brutally honest with themselves. If they can't do what is necessary, don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

The defense is awful. The turnovers are awful. The offense is awful.

[proshox]

The reason WSU is struggling to guard is the matchups chosen. We have the athletes to guard we just choose to play bigger which gives advantages to teams willing to play spread basketball.

[GreatWhiteBuffalo]

I agree that they need to play smaller, made that very comment to my dad last night. Still, it isn't just the mismatches out there where the Shocks are getting beat. None of them are guarding worth spit. CF can't guard and that is why he is not playing. His method of "stepping up the effort" is just to foul. I hope the many black eyes these guys are taking right now toughen them up and don't beat them down...

[GreatWhiteBuffalo]

The curve has been steep, but it sure seems like MM is slowly getting over the hump.

Silver lining for the last ~25% of the regular season, I guess.

What leads you to this conclusion?

[asiseeit]

1. I like RK but 33 minutes are too many for him considering he is an offensive liability.
Missed a wide open dunk, a bunny, another front end of a one and one, and took an
outside jumper, which he missed, at a time we really needed a basket. 8 rebounds in 33 minutes
isn't all that great. RN had a sub par game but had 4 rebounds in just 9 minutes and is a MUCH
better offensive player and plays well WITH SM. RK is a damn good role player but average starter.

2. ZB not giving us anything on either end of the court - 16 minutes of nothing

3. I hold my breath every time Jones has the ball in his hands waiting for something bad to happen

4. They were playing four guards and we should have been playing three but NOT Jones or CJ

5. MM has to start attacking the basket. Playing way to timid

6. Need to go to an 8 man rotation and play three guards much of the time without Jones being one of them

[Eric]

After a night’s sleep I thought the frustrations might simmer down. Nope. Everyone needs to wake up a little. From me as a fan, the players, and the coaches. This step up appears to have caught us all off guard. As fans, we need to remember that our whole happiness doesn’t depend on the success of teenagers playing a game. The players need to realize that 40 minutes of locked-in focus isn’t the ideal, it’s the bare minimum, and the coaches need to realize that they need to step us the performance as well. I remember hearing on a coach s show earlier something to th effect of “well if they don’t want me here I will take my big fat buyout check and move on.” How about maybe a little less arrogance with those that support you, and maybe a little more humility and willingness to learn from adversities instead of the “Eff you I will take my ball and go home if I don’t get my way” attitude. This is what we all wanted, now let’s figure it out and make it work.

[N Crestway]

I heard the same thing regarding the big buyout and moving on. Came out of left field and surprised me...was wondering what the hell was that about?

[proshox]

If he can’t handle criticism (which he can btw) he shouldn’t make $3.5M. Don’t worry about it.

[Rlh04d]

Austin is the only leader on the floor at this time...his moment with MM after the game proves that. HE IS THE light at the end of the tunnel for this team.

This was my only real observation from being there. Wasn't sure if it made it on TV or not. Austin at the end of the game showed more leadership than any other player all game. By miles. I love Shamet, but what this team needs is FVV. (And Jans.)

Past that, we just went cold from 3. What I don't understand is why we kept trying so hard from 3 when we were killing it inside and their guys had fouls racking up.

[GreatWhiteBuffalo]

This was my only real observation from being there. Wasn't sure if it made it on TV or not. Austin at the end of the game showed more leadership than any other player all game. By miles. I love Shamet, but what this team needs is FVV. (And Jans.)

Past that, we just went cold from 3. What I don't understand is why we kept trying so hard from 3 when we were killing it inside and their guys had fouls racking up.

Worst part of that is that three of those misses were Morris, Willis, and Nurger. I know Shaq was 2-3, but the team doesn't need posts popping threes when there is a real chance to throw dirt on an opponent.

[pinstripers]

For years, we played harder and were tougher than the other team. That's not the case right now. Seems like a chemistry issue or a locker room problem. Maybe they are tired of all the yelling. Our schmoozer coach is gone.