MVC BracketBuster games

[shox1989]

The decline of the MVC is on Elgin getting rid of the scheduling rules. The symptoms of that decline are being seen in the BB games.

I agree that is a major factor but I think being in the BB has NOT helped us.

[kstarheel]

Just win in St. Louis and see what happens. It's a bad conference but the Shox can play with anyone from about #6 down.... We just need to get in and see what we can do. (by 'we' I mean the team of course) :)

[ShockTalk]

Anyone wanting the Valley to get out of the BB is witnessing how it waited one year to long to so. It has now firmly placed itself as a conference of also-rans. The MVC has placed the Atl-10, MWC, and C-USA a clear step above.

Also, don't look for the MWC to renew our conference challenge when that time comes.

I don't see how you can blame the decline of the MVC on Bracket Busters. The fact that we are doing so poorly in the event is a symptom of a weak conference but not necessarily the cause.

Even if we had bailed out the of the BB this year it would not change the fact that the conference is down and has been for several years now.

I'm not blaming BB and didn't say so. It merely pointed out in big print and on TV that the Valley belonged there. Any hope of the Valley getting itself back to the level of the Atl-10, MWC, and C-USA will take some big changes with how the Valley now operates and will take some time.

[Speed]

The BB elimination games have probably opened up a dance slot for UNL

UNL with only one road win, two bad loses (Davidson and #156 Texas Tech), a 61 rpi (in spite of playing in a conference that allows you to pad your rpi),
but they are 6-6 against the rpi top 100 (winning at home and losing on the road) and they beat Texas today (in Lincoln of course).

I didn't realize UNI had only 1 road win, geez that makes me feel better that I got to see it.

The thing about opting out of BB is that if WSU hadn't of played, we would be looking at a lot of matchups & drooling over the possibility of wins & a good home game.

[1972Shocker]

The way I look at it the Bracket Busters provides the Shocks and the MVC an opportunity to make a statement with a few of their better teams on national TV.

Of course, this is a two-edged sword that can cut you on the other side if you blow it and that the MVC has done big time this year.

I have no problem getting out of the BB but not if it means we replace it with another Alabama A&M or Georgia Southwest AT&T.

The problem with the BB is not so much with the BB itself, but with our performance in the BB. Dominate the BB and prove that you are a cut above. Do that for a few year's in a row and then maybe you can move on to something better.

[shox1989]

The BB elimination games have probably opened up a dance slot for UNL

UNL with only one road win, two bad loses (Davidson and #156 Texas Tech), a 61 rpi (in spite of playing in a conference that allows you to pad your rpi),
but they are 6-6 against the rpi top 100 (winning at home and losing on the road) and they beat Texas today (in Lincoln of course).

I didn't realize UNI had only 1 road win, geez that makes me feel better that I got to see it.

The thing about opting out of BB is that if WSU hadn't of played, we would be looking at a lot of matchups & drooling over the possibility of wins & a good home game.

Speed I am talking about UNL NOT UNI. UNL is the University of Nebraska-Lincoln Cornhuskers.

UNI does have more road wins and will not be an at large team. UNL has only one road win, a couple of bad losses and they may be dancing now (I hope not).

If WSU didn't have the BB, they would have 2 more non-conference games to schedule.

Right now, Coach wants 4 buy games, a tournament where we have a chance to play BCS teams on a neutral court, and 1 MWC game as part of a the MWC-MVC challenge. That does NOT leave a lot of room for many other games.

If we shred ourselves of the BB, we will have 2 more slots for games. I have to believe that we could get two decent teams (rpi top 100) to replace the BB game and the BB return game.

For example, I would much rather schedule home and homes with teams like George Mason and Utah State (playing them in December not during the heat of the conference season and as part of an elimination game) then take a chance of getting a good game as part of the BB, late in the season, interupting the conference race and playing the game in an elimination event.

[1972Shocker]

I would much rather schedule home and homes with teams like George Mason and Utah State (playing them in December not during the heat of the conference season and as part of an elimination game) then take a chance of getting a good game as part of the BB, late in the season, interupting the conference race and playing the game in an elimination event.

This is what I think needs to happen also. The better programs in the conferences particiapting in the BB need to load up their pre-conference schedules with home and home contracts and elimiate a couple of the crap buy-in games.

[tropicalshox]

Just not renewing the UMKC 3 for 1 and getting a one for one with an upgrade would help.

[shox1989]

I would much rather schedule home and homes with teams like George Mason and Utah State (playing them in December not during the heat of the conference season and as part of an elimination game) then take a chance of getting a good game as part of the BB, late in the season, interupting the conference race and playing the game in an elimination event.

This is what I think needs to happen also. The better programs in the conferences particiapting in the BB need to load up their pre-conference schedules with home and home contracts and elimiate a couple of the crap buy-in games.

The problem is our coach wants 4 buy in games. That along with our other contractual obligations makes it very hard to improve our schedule.

I think if we got rid of the BB, opening up 2 scheduling slots, it would get a lot easier. I think coach would love to have more contracts with teams like Tulsa, the current schedule with 2 games being tied up with the BB makes that very difficult.

My fear is that if our coach can't have his 4 buy in games a year, he will go to a school (quasi-major or BCS) where he can. I think when he came to WSU he thought we were a school where you can do that (and we were in 2006-07).

[XManCometh]

Just win in St. Louis and see what happens. It's a bad conference but the Shox can play with anyone from about #6 down.... We just need to get in and see what we can do. (by 'we' I mean the team of course) :)

I hope you mean #6 Seed. Because we probably can't hang with anyone in the top 25. UCONN doesn't count. They're tons better than they were when they played us. I promise you we'd get destroyed by Georgetown, Kentucky, Villanova and BYU if we played them tomorrow.

[ShockTalk]

Look. My problem is not the teams/games we get matched up with.

It has more to do with who is NOT participating in it. No Atl-10, no C-USA, no MWC, no Gonzaga, and this year, no Butler (yes, I know why). It makes for the appearance that you do not belong or should be mentioned in the same breath with those conferences/teams. That gives those teams just one more tool to use when recruiting.

Through weak leadership at the MVC, weak scheduling by its teams, a drop in conference RPI standing, continued one bid conference, and now this BB fiasco, it has just slapped a big "second rate" across its chest.

This problem/perception has been building for several years. Making changes a year or two ago would have been much easier than it will be now.

[shox1989]

Look. My problem is not the teams/games we get matched up with.

It has more to do with who is NOT participating in it. No Atl-10, no C-USA, no MWC, no Gonzaga, and this year, no Butler (yes, I know why). It makes for the appearance that you do not belong or should be mentioned in the same breath with those conferences/teams. That gives those teams just one more tool to use when recruiting.

Through weak leadership at the MVC, weak scheduling by its teams, a drop in conference RPI standing, continued one bid conference, and now this BB fiasco, it has just slapped a big "second rate" across its chest.

This problem/perception has been building for several years. Making changes a year or two ago would have been much easier than it will be now.

I think you explained it very well.

I really hope the Commissioner does something this year to try an change some things. I know it is probably 2 or 3 years too late, but better late than never.

[1972Shocker]

Look. My problem is not the teams/games we get matched up with.

It has more to do with who is NOT participating in it. No Atl-10, no C-USA, no MWC, no Gonzaga, and this year, no Butler (yes, I know why).

The question is did those teams/leagues become good because they opted out of BB or were they able to opt out of BB because they became good.
I would think the latter.

One of the bigget problems with MVC teams and recruiting is they do not have great TV markets or exposure. The lure of TV exposure that BB gives is probably too much for the league to pass up at this point. However, it does no good (and perhaps even hurts) if you don't take care of business.

A realignment of the teams in the MVC is perhaps due for some serious evaluation.

[shox1989]

Look. My problem is not the teams/games we get matched up with.

It has more to do with who is NOT participating in it. No Atl-10, no C-USA, no MWC, no Gonzaga, and this year, no Butler (yes, I know why).

The question is did those teams/leagues become good because they opted out of BB or were they able to opt out of BB because they became good.
I would think the latter.

One of the bigget problems with MVC teams and recruiting is they do not have great TV markets or exposure. The lure of TV exposure that BB gives is probably too much for the league to pass up at this point. However, it does no good (and perhaps even hurts) if you don't take care of business.

A realignment of the teams in the MVC is perhaps due for some serious evaluation.

The MVC (#7) was better than the MWC (#8), and CUSA (#11) LAST YEAR and we were right behind the A-10 (#6) . During the early years of the BB we were usually better than all of them.

Those conferences however still get multiple bids in spite of having worse rpis than us. And they are all smart enough to say out of the BB. All three of them have the perception of being a level above the Valley.

A perception that has only become a reality this year.

We need to change things before that reality becomes permanent.

[ShockTalk]

Look. My problem is not the teams/games we get matched up with.

It has more to do with who is NOT participating in it. No Atl-10, no C-USA, no MWC, no Gonzaga, and this year, no Butler (yes, I know why).

The question is did those teams/leagues become good because they opted out of BB or were they able to opt out of BB because they became good.
I would think the latter.

One of the bigget problems with MVC teams and recruiting is they do not have great TV markets or exposure. The lure of TV exposure that BB gives is probably too much for the league to pass up at this point. However, it does no good (and perhaps even hurts) if you don't take care of business.

A realignment of the teams in the MVC is perhaps due for some serious evaluation.

IMO, to reply to your first paragraph, neither. Those conferences, just like the MVC, were already good. The others didn't see the need, but our commissioner had a stake in the BB.

#2 paragraph: It does hurt and will after tonight. I don't really know about the TV part. I do feel that the Valley had all the exposure they needed to be successful after 2006, but it failed to take advantge of it by not keeping its schools' teams strong through weak policy decisions.

#3: I would like to see this, but as you may have noticed, this weak conference bug has pretty much hit the Valley from top to bottom. It will take a lot more than culling those schools who can not or won't do what it will takes. Everyone in this conference will now need to "prove it". They will need to have fewer home games and cannot fear losing on the road or at home to better quality of opponents. After all, just what do they have to lose? They still have their auto bid and that's all they've been getting for some time now anyway.