Rivals.com's 2009 Top 25

[shock10]

Maybe Holt can kick a catcher playing baseball this summer. NO CLASS

[billybud]

"Ref blew it, Huh?"

Well..Ump, anyway..LOL..we're a football school

Yep...the runner was not in a direct line with the base, the 2nd baseman was in a protected area..there was contact.

The runner was attempting to break up a double play, but in doing so, he left the direct line to go wide of the base. The rule covers that concisely.

The ump didn't call it...and you know what? The umpires just can't seem to call a perfect game

[billybud]

Maybe Holt can kick a catcher playing baseball this summer. NO CLASS

Hopefully he'll learn...he was just a freshman 18 year old kid charged with emotion. He'll mature, we hope.

[shockfan89]

Where were these supposed facts in court billy?

You do know that the parties settled out of court before trial. Molina settled with the appellants, Stephenson, Kemnitz and Christensen.

Part of the negotiated settlement included that the settlement be sealed and confidential.

NO THEY DIDN'T!!! Molina and Christensen settled out of court. Stephenson and Kemnitz and WSU went to trial and were found to have no liability.

Here is a piece of the judgement by the Kansas Supreme Court:

We affirm the trial court. We realize that this means no recovery for the plaintiff under facts which would indicate little, if any, justification for defendant's conduct. However, WSU is the sovereign, and the sovereign may only be subjected to a money judgment in a civil action under circumstances which the sovereign itself has laid down. Under these facts, the sovereign is immune from any liability no matter how unfortunate the event by reason of the recreational use exception of the KTCA. That immunity requires that we affirm the decision of the trial court.

[billybud]

After a more thorough review...I must clarify a former post.

Molino did settle with Christensen...the WSU coaches claimed immunity due to the recreational use exception to the Kansas Torts Act and the court affirmed.

From the court document...

"Anthony Edward Molina sued Benjamin Christensen and Wichita State University (WSU) for injuries sustained prior to a regularly scheduled intercollegiate baseball game between WSU and the University of Evansville, Indiana (Evansville).

Summary judgment was rendered on behalf of the defendants, who were held to be immune from liability under the recreational use exception to the Kansas Tort Claims Act (KTCA), K.S.A. 1999 Supp. 75-6104(o). The plaintiff appeals the decision of the trial court. We affirm.

The Evansville team had traveled to Wichita to play in a regularly scheduled baseball game against WSU. All matters relevant to this appeal took place at Rusty Eck Stadium in Wichita.

The injury to the plaintiff took place as he was standing either in or near the on-deck circle prior to the beginning of the baseball game. Defendant Christensen was pitching for WSU and was on the pitcher's mound warming up. At one point and for reasons not totally clear, Christensen threw a baseball at the head of the plaintiff and struck him on his head, causing serious injuries. The plaintiff then filed suit against WSU, alleging simple negligence on the part not only of Christensen but also on the parts of the manager of the WSU team and one of its coaches. There is no doubt that the injury to the plaintiff was deliberate and unjustifiable.

Christensen maintained that his actions were motivated by instructions given to him by one of the WSU coaches. According to Christensen, his actions had something to do with keeping the batter from getting too close to home plate. The problem with that rationale is that under the facts shown, the game had not started, the plaintiff had every right to be where he was, and Christensen had no right whatsoever to be throwing a baseball anywhere near him.

Despite the defendants' unconscionable tactics, the plaintiff's petition alleged only simple negligence on the part of Gene Stephenson and Brent Kemnitz. Stephenson, as the manager, and Kemnitz, as one of the coaches, were both employees of WSU. WSU filed an answer to this petition and reserved the defense of immunity under the recreational use exception to the KTCA. "

[billybud]

oops...I was researching as you posted..thanks.

So....that lays it all out...The court called it the way they saw it and ruled that the coaches were immune because of their WSU athletic employment.

The court said that in spite of the defendants unconscionable tactics, the coaches were employees of Wichita State University and fell under the immunity provisions of the recreational use exception/

[William]

Ok then it's settled, Ben acted alone and made a hideous choice, Brent had nothing to do with this, was in no way responsible, and would never tell his pitchers to brush back an on deck hitter during warm-ups ( because you might kill him if you hit him in the head) Ben then apparently in an even jerkier move tried to roll-over on his coaches to save his own hide, this whole thing is just sick.

[shock10]

Aggressive baseball is one thing dirty baseball is another Holt's slide was DIRTY.

[William]

Holts kick at the end of his slide was definately dirty and I wouldn't be surprised if 11 told everyone to go in extra hard after the unfortunate but clean slide of Jones.

[shockfan89]

oops...I was researching as you posted..thanks.

So....that lays it all out...The court called it the way they saw it and ruled that the coaches were immune because of their WSU athletic employment.

The court said that in spite of the defendants unconscionable tactics, the coaches were employees of Wichita State University and fell under the immunity provisions of the recreational use exception/

Yes, and "the plaintiff's petition alleged only simple negligence on the part of Gene Stephenson and Brent Kemnitz" meaning they basically did nothing wrong. Even the umpires and Molina displayed simple negligence leading to this incident. If there had been ANY evidence BK had told his pitcher to do this it would have amounted to more than simple negligence.

[billybud]

Actually...Holt's slide could have been uglier...he didn't hit the catcher at all on the way sliding in...he slid under the glove and then after sliding into home, he lifted his leg and kicked up at the catcher... ..more of an "in your face" kind of deal.

It was not a hard slide into a catcher...it was a juvenile adrenaline loaded response after he scored. But it should have been called by the ref because it was clear what it was.

[William]

If there were any pitching meetings where this was taught, and tape-recorded, or if bks cd had been out then and it was taught there, or if the entire pitching staff would have testified against their coach, but none of this was available for evidence because Brent didn't have anything to do with it.

[billybud]

Shockfan89...yeah right...

Sure, Christensen just lied under oath...the pitching coach just mispoke when he told reporters it was his fault not Christensens...etc.

The justices reviewed the facts as put forth by all parties and called the defendents actions unconscionable... I think that the justices reviewed the testimony and got it right.

The fact that they were immune has nothing to do with the rightousness of the defendent's actions...only their immunity from legal action due to a legal exception.

You can hear the justices in their summation: They have no choice because of the the law.

"We affirm the trial court. We realize that this means no recovery for the plaintiff under facts which would indicate little, if any, justification for defendant's conduct. However, WSU is the sovereign, and the sovereign may only be subjected to a money judgment in a civil action under circumstances which the sovereign itself has laid down. Under these facts, the sovereign is immune from any liability no matter how unfortunate the event by reason of the recreational use exception of the KTCA. That immunity requires that we affirm the decision of the trial court.

Affirmed. "

[William]

Billy you have got this all wrong, If our coach had done what you have said, and he most certainly did not, he would have been fired by our university on the spot, nobody in his right mind would tell their pitcher to blind a kid with a 90mph fastball, the kid made a bad choice and then missed his spot obviously because I really doubt bc was trying to hit the kid anyway.

[shockfan89]

billy - You obviously don't know the facts and are going based on media reports and pieced together quotes. Did BK at one time say you should brush back a guy that is crowding the plate? I am sure he did! Did he ever tell any of his pitchers to throw at anyone before the game? I am sure he didn't.

You can change things and take things out of context just like the media did and create something out of very little but the fact is WSU coaches have been coaching at the highest level for 30+ years and nothing remotely close to this has ever happened. WSU players don't get in fights, very seldom even retaliate when some of us fans think they have reason to.

This was an accident pure and simple. What if by some freak accident Holt's cleat would have gotten under Weber's pads and cut an artery in his leg? Nobody on here thinks he was trying to injury Weber. He did something in the heat of battle that 999 times out of 1000 is harmless aggression in sports. Ben accidently hit him with a pitch meant to send a message. A message very similar to what Holt was sending to WSU by kicking at Weber. Weber had done nothing to Holt. Obviously things turned out very different but the intent was much the same. I hope you can at least understand that.