Shox versus Noles (Championship Game)

[RoyalShock]

Hold the phone. I should have read further. Right after the section I quoted there is a caveat:

A.R.—If the batter freezes and is hit by a pitch that is clearly inside the vertical lines of
the batter’s box, the ball is dead and the batter is awarded first base.

So, it is a mix, depending on where the ball is thrown.

I stand corrected.

[shocker3]

If you can run rule someone in the 8th, I have no problem. Do it in the 9th, I have a problem.

The FSU steal was about one thing. And it wasn't about getting an insurance run. That's why Gene was irritated.

I disagree totally. In that place with balls that fly out for home runs routinely, a 6 run lead can not be considered safe.

I would have done the same if I were him. :wsu_posters:

[shockandawe08]

Okay, thanks RoyalShock. So, are you saying a batter who faces being hit by a pitch just has to do a good impersonation of a deer "caught in the headlights" and he'll get a free pass? If so, the baseball team should probably hire a drama coach too.

[RoyalShock]

Okay, thanks RoyalShock. So, are you saying a batter who faces being hit by a pitch just has to do a good impersonation of a deer "caught in the headlights" and he'll get a free pass? If so, the baseball team should probably hire a drama coach too.

Yeah, "freeze" is an interesting choice of words and leaves a lot of room for interpretation.

[7hottamales]

Okay, thanks RoyalShock. So, are you saying a batter who faces being hit by a pitch just has to do a good impersonation of a deer "caught in the headlights" and he'll get a free pass? If so, the baseball team should probably hire a drama coach too.

Yeah, "freeze" is an interesting choice of words and leaves a lot of room for interpretation.

It's all very subjective, but in reality the only time you will see a hit batter not awarded a base is if they obviously go out of their way to get hit. Even turning into the ball is legit because it can be construed as an action of protection. Only one this weekend had a legit chance to be ruled a ball and it was.

[7hottamales]

If you can run rule someone in the 8th, I have no problem. Do it in the 9th, I have a problem.

The FSU steal was about one thing. And it wasn't about getting an insurance run. That's why Gene was irritated.

I disagree totally. In that place with balls that fly out for home runs routinely, a 6 run lead can not be considered safe.

I would have done the same if I were him. :wsu_posters:

The other part of this that no one has touched on is the fact that I believe that was FSU's first stolen base of the super regional. It wasn't like stealing 2nd in the 9th was business as usual for a team trying to win the game. It was uncharacteristic of how they approached the series. They were definitely rubbing it in. They waited until they were up 6 in the last inning of the Shockers' season to decide it was worth the risk? Sure...because they weren't concerned about the outcome of the game anymore.

[7hottamales]

Just because "we've" done it at some point doesn't mean it's right...I think we can all think of a couple examples of that. I find that approach of rationalizing behavior as a bit weird.

Well, I'm not rationalizing anything, I'm just pointing out to those who were so offended by FSU behavior, they really need to stand up and tell Gene they don't want to see that type of behavior from his teams.

Otherwise, if your only going to complain about FSU behavior, but ignore your own - then that makes you a hypocrite.

I see where you are coming from...no doubt about it.

[shockall]

Stealing in the 9th was BS.

I don't agree with this statement. The game isn't over until it's over. FSU has the right to use their time at bat for as long as it lasts. Stealing bases during a game is good practice for the next level of competition.

Why would a coach have his guys roll over and take it easy on the competition when there's good practice to be had?

We got spanked good on Saturday & Sunday by a good team with a very potent offense....! Good luck FSU at the CWS.

Believe what you want. I was taught to play the game differently and the thought would never cross my mind if I were coaching. I guess you don't have a problem with a basketball team leaving thier starters in and running up the score against an over matched team even when the game is out of reach.

I certainly wouldn't tell the reserves not to play their hardest, just because the game is a blowout. You probably would, but then thank God you are not a WSU coach.

Way to not answer the question. If the reserves are in you let them play. But this game was with the starters and so was my scenario. Thank God you don't teach reading comprehension. Or at least I hope you don't.

Good teams play 100% aggressive with starters or reserves. You never let up until the final whistle blows and the fat lady sings. Giving up early as you suggest just because you have a 6 run lead is very grade schoolish/high schoolish. In college play, the teams come to play to the very end, especially in a small park like FSU's.
Perhaps you had the impression that WSU was going to lose at that point, but fortunately, the WSU team was still presenting itself as a team that could still win at that point. If FSU still believed that a comeback was possible, there's no way in the world not to play 100% and use all the strategy available to them, including stealing second base.

[hiboy]

I have always thought that if you didn't like a team stealing on you, no matter what the score, just throw them out.

[ShockRef]

I'm with SB on the steal deal.
It's not complicated - if you don't like it when they steal, stop them.
I understand if the score if 16-2 in the 8th, but as mentioned, I've seen many teams pop 6 in an inning.
WSU & SB both nailed it when it comes to our studs stinking up the place. Shafer and especially Capra were really bad. Capra should have never left the dugout.
And finally, I pitched for several years and the unwritten rule was simple - if you leaned into one to get on base via the cheap route, the next at bat you got buzzed under the chin.
Simple, effective and to the point. 8)

[SubGod22]

Stealing in the 9th was BS.

I don't agree with this statement. The game isn't over until it's over. FSU has the right to use their time at bat for as long as it lasts. Stealing bases during a game is good practice for the next level of competition.

Why would a coach have his guys roll over and take it easy on the competition when there's good practice to be had?

We got spanked good on Saturday & Sunday by a good team with a very potent offense....! Good luck FSU at the CWS.

Believe what you want. I was taught to play the game differently and the thought would never cross my mind if I were coaching. I guess you don't have a problem with a basketball team leaving thier starters in and running up the score against an over matched team even when the game is out of reach.

I certainly wouldn't tell the reserves not to play their hardest, just because the game is a blowout. You probably would, but then thank God you are not a WSU coach.

Way to not answer the question. If the reserves are in you let them play. But this game was with the starters and so was my scenario. Thank God you don't teach reading comprehension. Or at least I hope you don't.

Good teams play 100% aggressive with starters or reserves. You never let up until the final whistle blows and the fat lady sings. Giving up early as you suggest just because you have a 6 run lead is very grade schoolish/high schoolish. In college play, the teams come to play to the very end, especially in a small park like FSU's.
Perhaps you had the impression that WSU was going to lose at that point, but fortunately, the WSU team was still presenting itself as a team that could still win at that point. If FSU still believed that a comeback was possible, there's no way in the world not to play 100% and use all the strategy available to them, including stealing second base.

At least now I know that's your philosophy on things. So football teams should never take a knee and try and do more. WSU should leave the starters in when they're beating up on someone and keep on a full court press and score as much as possible. Those are the kind of tactics that lead to other teams taking cheap shots at you and can hurt a reputation. I for one hope we avoid doing those things.

The steal wasn't for anything more than rubbing it in as was pointed out earlier. I hadn't even thought about it being the only attempt the entire series. That in itself says something...

[hiboy]

The comparison between football and basketball and this is not valid, because there is no clock in baseball, so theoretically, a game is NEVER out of reach.

We are allowed to throw out the attempting stealer, correct? If we do that, for all intents and purposes, they are giving us an out.

We had a great season, and our talent took us as far as it would go. To complain about the tactics of the team that eliminated us compromises the perception as educated fans that we normally enjoy.

Finally, if you don't like guys who "take on for the team", you're going to HATE Tyler Grimes.

[RoyalShock]

While I didn't like the steal, there is a difference between baseball and the other major sports and that is the issue of being able to mathematically eliminate the other team. In football and basketball, the game clock and scoring margin can prevent another team from coming back to tie or win.

In baseball, you're never mathematically out of it until the 3rd out of the ninth.

But as 7hot observed, going to tactics you haven't used the entire series says something about the motivations behind the attempt.

After giving it some thought (and time), I guess the steal only bothers me a little. Leaning into the pitch is also somewhat troublesome at that point in the game. But at least he didn't argue or fake injury, like the Arkansas player (no offense Charlie) did a couple of years ago. http://youtube.com/watch?v=iPwU42txSnU

[shockall]

Stealing in the 9th was BS.

I don't agree with this statement. The game isn't over until it's over. FSU has the right to use their time at bat for as long as it lasts. Stealing bases during a game is good practice for the next level of competition.

Why would a coach have his guys roll over and take it easy on the competition when there's good practice to be had?

We got spanked good on Saturday & Sunday by a good team with a very potent offense....! Good luck FSU at the CWS.

Believe what you want. I was taught to play the game differently and the thought would never cross my mind if I were coaching. I guess you don't have a problem with a basketball team leaving thier starters in and running up the score against an over matched team even when the game is out of reach.

I certainly wouldn't tell the reserves not to play their hardest, just because the game is a blowout. You probably would, but then thank God you are not a WSU coach.

Way to not answer the question. If the reserves are in you let them play. But this game was with the starters and so was my scenario. Thank God you don't teach reading comprehension. Or at least I hope you don't.

Good teams play 100% aggressive with starters or reserves. You never let up until the final whistle blows and the fat lady sings. Giving up early as you suggest just because you have a 6 run lead is very grade schoolish/high schoolish. In college play, the teams come to play to the very end, especially in a small park like FSU's.
Perhaps you had the impression that WSU was going to lose at that point, but fortunately, the WSU team was still presenting itself as a team that could still win at that point. If FSU still believed that a comeback was possible, there's no way in the world not to play 100% and use all the strategy available to them, including stealing second base.

At least now I know that's your philosophy on things. So football teams should never take a knee and try and do more. WSU should leave the starters in when they're beating up on someone and keep on a full court press and score as much as possible. Those are the kind of tactics that lead to other teams taking cheap shots at you and can hurt a reputation. I for one hope we avoid doing those things.

The steal wasn't for anything more than rubbing it in as was pointed out earlier. I hadn't even thought about it being the only attempt the entire series. That in itself says something...

I guess that's just your silly impression (or philosphy as you call it), but not mine or the dozen or so other posters who agree with me in this thread. You are entitled to your opinion and I will leave it at that. P.S. WSU has not had a football team for many years.

[RoyalShock]

We are allowed to throw out the attempting stealer, correct? If we do that, for all intents and purposes, they are giving us an out.

So, it's just that easy? Just toss the ball down to 2nd and tag him out when you're not expecting the steal attempt? Oh, OK. I'll have to remember that.

Finally, if you don't like guys who "take on for the team", you're going to HATE Tyler Grimes.

Please explain how a guy stealing late in the game is "taking one for the team". I don't see the application here.