Baseball 2017 Edition - What would you do?

[JohnQShocker]

Thanks to everyone for your input, especially those that admitted to voting A and for the former player/player's parent for chiming in. I don't think anyone believes HCTB is getting it done right now with a 21-37 record (78-98 in 3 years), 6th place MVC finish and 0-2 in the MVC tournament.

So my question is, what does the team/HCTB need to do next year to show improvement? I think the conference will be down even more next year so does that mean 40-24 with a 1st or 2nd place finish? Does that mean 36-23? with 3rd or better? (SB Shock - I'm thinking you need to open another poll).

I think SB's last post and this poll says a lot. I know it is not at all scientific but you have 50 votes and only 8 support the current coach (16 %). We either need to hire someone fans will support or find some way to rally behind this team/staff.

It doesn't matter what this team does next year......just know that it won't be enough for the satisfaction of many on the forum. Is .500 good enough? Not in my book, but it may be enough of an improvement to satisfy others. You do raise a good question: What is good enough for 2017?

[Cdizzle]

It doesn't matter what this team does next year......

I think this most aptly sums up the thought process of someone that thinks Butler should still be the coach.

[shockfan89_]

It doesn't matter what this team does next year......just know that it won't be enough for the satisfaction of many on the forum. Is .500 good enough? Not in my book, but it may be enough of an improvement to satisfy others. You do raise a good question: What is good enough for 2017?

I don't completely agree with you. Winning fixes EVERYTHING. But keep in mind, winning at WSU means finishing 1st or 2nd in the conference EVERY year, not just once in three years or even three times in five years. I don't think .500 next year cuts it. That would mean 4 years in we are roughly 108-128 (30-30 in 2017). Just my two cents....

[ShockerFever]

It doesn't matter what this team does next year......

Nominated for dumbest post of the year.

[THam]

I voted A. I'm not happy with where things are at now, but all things considered, I'm not convinced that we're more likely to return to at-large quality in the next 2 or 3 years by upending things as opposed to letting Butler play out his string. But, having said that, this next recruiting class better be deep with pitchers ready to contribute quality innings right away. I just don't see enough talent in the returning pitchers to make the 1.50-2.00 runs a game improvement we need to be respectable on the mound.

[ShockerFever]

I assume these are the only 8 people that have been in the stands this year.

[JohnQShocker]

I think this most aptly sums up the thought process of someone that thinks Butler should still be the coach.

I think you're missing my point, big guy. Yes, in my opinion, I feel Butler should be given one more year to get things rolling. If he doesn't, then I agree that other options should be reviewed. Now, I've gone out on a limb and stated that it won't matter what the team does next year because (in my opinion) most haters will not be satisfied with any amount of wins that he/they put up in 2017 short of a trip to Omaha (I meant to include Omaha in earlier post - sorry). What would satisfy you from a 4th year coach? .500 ball will NOT satisfy me at all. Top 3 in conference and over .600 overall might do for me, but obviously I'd hope for more.

[WuShock16]

I will admit to being a fan of Todd Butler because of some great interactions that I have had with him in the past couple of years. After hearing him speak, I was confident that we'd be in Omaha sooner than later. Unfortunately, that hasn't happened yet. I am hopeful that things will turn around but we will have to wait and see.

That all said, I certainly know that this is a results-based profession. While I am not upset that he apparently will return, I understand the urgency. As for next year, they HAVE to be an at-large quality team. Yes, Gene made a regional in his last season, but he was also 27 outs from being two-and-'que in the Valley Tournament...and then after making that miraculous run to win the MVC Tournament, the team was EMBARRASSED against K-State in the opening game of the NCAA Tournament (in case anyone has forgotten about 20-11). So...just making a regional cannot be the goal. The team has to be at-large quality next season. If that doesn't happen, then a change needs made.

[JohnQShocker]

I don't completely agree with you. Winning fixes EVERYTHING. But keep in mind, winning at WSU means finishing 1st or 2nd in the conference EVERY year, not just once in three years or even three times in five years. I don't think .500 next year cuts it. That would mean 4 years in we are roughly 108-128 (30-30 in 2017). Just my two cents....

Ask Gene if winning the conference title fixed everything.........

I'll ask again, what would satisfy you for 2017?

[ShockerFever]

Well we know 21-37 satisfied you for 2016.

[JohnQShocker]

Well we know 21-37 satisfied you for 2016.

you're putting words in my mouth.....never did I say that I was satisfied. My opinion is that Butler should be given one more year is all that I've stated.

I also stated that it doesn't matter what this team does next year......meaning that you can't please everyone.

What results of the Shocker baseball team would satisfy your expectations for 2017?

[Cdizzle]

I also stated that it doesn't matter what this team does next year......meaning that you can't please everyone.

No one else has said this, either, Captain WordsInMouth.

[1972Shocker]

I voted A. I'm not happy with where things are at now, but all things considered, I'm not convinced that we're more likely to return to at-large quality in the next 2 or 3 years by upending things as opposed to letting Butler play out his string. But, having said that, this next recruiting class better be deep with pitchers ready to contribute quality innings right away. I just don't see enough talent in the returning pitchers to make the 1.50-2.00 runs a game improvement we need to be respectable on the mound.

What are the chances of the incoming pitching recruits to make a significant contribution? That is hard to predict for sure. We have 9 pitchers in the incoming class. 7 of those are high schoolers, 1 is a transfer from Cowley County who pitched for West Virginia two years ago as a freshman and 1, Matt Whalen, redshirted as a freshman at WSU in 2015 and pitched for Cisco (TX) College this season.

Last year's incoming recruiting class included 9 ptichers as well. 6 were high schoolers and 3 were juco transfers. 2 of those high school recruits redshirted which says something considering both were lefties and the Shocks were very short of left-handed pitching this year. Of the 7 who did pitch this year Zach Lewis, a juco transfer, by far pitched the most innings. He was 2-9 with a 5.96 ERA and a 1.39 WHIP. Collectively, the 7 who did pitch had an average ERA of 6.97 and an average WHIP of 1.75.

So while I agree with you that the talent of the returning pitchers is not anything that generates a great deal of hope for next year their 1st year performances also may provide a warning not to expect too much out the next incoming class of pitchers.

That said next year's group of incoming pitchers average 6-3.5 in height ranging from 6-2 to 6-6. So there is that. Of course, last years recruiting class of pitchers ranged from 6-1 to 6-5 and averaged 6-3 so maybe, just maybe, that is no guarantee of success.

[Cdizzle]

Ooooh, I didn't realize next year's recruited pitchers were so tall. Never mind. I'm totally back on board.

Serious question: Is any other evaluation given when recruiting? Or is it just "yep, he's >6'2" and wearing a baseball uniform. must be great. can't imagine why no one else has scooped this guy up yet. we're getting a steal."

Cause so far the results are, um, literally the worst ever.

[JohnQShocker]

THAT is funny