A look ahead

[KansasShocker]

Shockermonster, i do not believe that velocity decides whether you are a good pitcher or not. Gardner certainly proved that to be true his freshman year and wsu has had many great pitchers with below average velocity. Steenstra comes to mind. However if you look at many of then quotes and the comments made by HCTB you can clearly see velocity is the most important thing to him. It will be interesting to see how that plays out. Tj looney is a butler recruit and we all know how that turned out. On a side note, I have read on here before, not sure when or where, that people have stated that Sam tewes is also a butler recruit. That is not true, he was committed and signed with wsu long before the firing of former HCGS.

[shockmonster]

KS You've been going after Butler for a while now and you obviously aren't a supporter. I have to believe that he knows more baseball than you give him credit for. If I find out later that he can't do the job, then I'll change my mind. While we've had a quite a few good pitchers in our history that didn't throw like Pelphrey, Sonberg, Oelkers, Dreiffort, or a lot of other great Shockers who threw the baseball with great velocity, almost all of these great pitchers threw with either pin point control or had a lot of movement (Brummet's dad fit into this category as did Steenstra) on their pitches. I have to admit that I haven't been out to see the Shockers for several years (because of how this program has gone into the toilet), so I don't know Gardner or Brummett but I have to think that there is more to this situation and it is less simple than you make it out to be. Maybe what you have read in the paper is all there is but I still don't buy it.

[1972Shocker]

Tj looney is a butler recruit and we all know how that turned out.

Yeah, HCTB signed a few walk-ons late in the summer to fill out his roster. He really did not have any opportunity to "recruit" for the 2014 roster. Furthermore, they totally changed T.J.'s delivery in the middle of the season in an attempt to create more movement on his pitches. Unfortuantely, his command was not good. Since you need 8 walk-ons every year to fill out your roster they probably invited T.J. back to see if working on his new delivery for a year will make any difference.

I think Paul Suellentrop was on target when he wrote:

I consider next season the “real” first season for coach Todd Butler.

Read more here: http://blogs.kansas.com/shockwaves/#storylink=cpy

[KansasShocker]

Shockermonster, not true. I do believe that butler is the person that can change the way this program has been headed. I do believe that he will be very successful. Do I question some of the things he says? Yes. Does that mean I don't think he's right for the job? No. His knowledge is far and above mine and even though sometimes I question what he says I do trust him. Now that that has been cleared up, I believe it is best if you do not speak about Gardner and brummet when you clearly do not know what you are talking about because you have not seen them. A lot of things you say just simply do not make sense. Both of these two did throw with pin point control their freshman year. That is all. I already gave my opinion on what happened and I do not feel like getting into an even deeper conversation about it with someone who clearly does not know anything about them or the game.

[1972Shocker]

Both of these two did throw with pin point control their freshman year.

Unfortunately, neither has the stuff to be successful unless they do have pin-point control. In other words they both have very little margin for error. Kris was unable to duplicate his freshman year in either of the last 2 years. What I noticed when Kris was pitching is that it seemed like the hitters had caught on to his game and were being very patient at the plate forcing Kris to have to pitch more in the strike zone when he would fall behind on the count. Not sure if that same thing happened to Garrett or not. Maybe it was as simple as neither was able to duplicate the pin-point control need for them to be successful.

While HCTB has expressed a desire to add some power arms to his pitching staff I don't think he is opposed to Brummett and Gardner style pitchers. He did sign AZ Juco pitcher Jon Ferrendelli who HCTB describes as follows:

“He can really locate,” Butler said. “He’s not an overpowering guy, probably 88-91 mph, but he seems to really know what he’s doing on the mound.”

Read more here: http://www.kansas.com/2014/04/25/342...#storylink=cpy

[WSUwatcher]

I don't know what happened but I remember Arkansas having quite a few low velocity pitchers that had success in the past. I don't see good baseball coaches making decisions solely on this basis. I don't see it.

I don't know about quite a few, but I think we all remember one the Shockers also recruited who ended up being a problem for WSU. Does the name Charley Boyce ring a bell?

[shockmonster]

Shockermonster, not true. I do believe that butler is the person that can change the way this program has been headed. I do believe that he will be very successful. Do I question some of the things he says? Yes. Does that mean I don't think he's right for the job? No. His knowledge is far and above mine and even though sometimes I question what he says I do trust him. Now that that has been cleared up, I believe it is best if you do not speak about Gardner and brummet when you clearly do not know what you are talking about because you have not seen them. A lot of things you say just simply do not make sense. Both of these two did throw with pin point control their freshman year. That is all. I already gave my opinion on what happened and I do not feel like getting into an even deeper conversation about it with someone who clearly does not know anything about them or the game.

Some of what you write makes sense ans some of it lacks credibility. You act like you know the inside story on these two players but you don't. You say that you aren't getting personal about these issues but by your own words, you show that you are emotionally and personally invested and that blocks your judgement.

[KansasShocker]

Lol ok

[SB Shock]

I don't know about quite a few, but I think we all remember one the Shockers also recruited who ended up being a problem for WSU. Does the name Charley Boyce ring a bell?

Charlie Boyce - #1 reason WSU and Arkansas don't play anymore. Van Horn has the last laugh by having one of his assistants taking Gene job

[Iamsecond]

nothin to say

[FutureShockerDad]

Charlie Boyce - #1 reason WSU and Arkansas don't play anymore. Van Horn has the last laugh by having one of his assistants taking Gene job

It's "Charley" but he doesn't mind.

[pogo]

I think SB was thinking of Charlie Hog. EmIright?

[SB Shock]

I think SB was thinking of Charlie Hog. EmIright?

no - boyce. Boyce remember came back after 30 minute rest (I exaggerate) and pitched the final game of the WSU/Arkansas regional. Post-game Gene hinted publically he would never abuse one of his pitchers like that- which of course pissed off Van Horn.

Who was the Senior walk-on Gene refused to pull for the closer because he just wanted to give the Senior a "feel-good" moment in getting the last out and the gave up the 2 or 3 run HR.....[sigh]. Kennedy call on the radio killed me (acted like it was just a "can-of-corn")

[Play Angry]

Sometimes spelling jokes are lost on people who are horrible at spelling :)

[WSUwatcher]

The closer, who had come out of nowhere to be pretty good late in the season, was Danny Jackson. Gene made his first mistake when he chose -- and who knows how much Brent was involved in the decision too, but in any case Gene obviously had the final say -- because of Jackson's inexperience not to put him in to start the ninth. That would have been the ideal time to use him because it would have given Jackson a chance to settle in while working from the windup.

Instead, falling victim to his preference for experience -- even though he had long since been taught the lesson (but apparently hadn't yet learned it) that inexperienced talent is usually better than veteran mediocrity), Gene went with Kyle Banick, who in fairness almost got the job done and was victimized by a well-placed infield hit (among other things) that kept the inning alive. That in turn led to Gene's second, and fatal, mistake of going out to change pitchers and being convinced to stick with Banick instead (another lesson he had been taught but hadn't learned: when you go out to make a change, MAKE IT). Shortly thereafter, the high fly that fell barely over the wall right down the line ensued, and WSU's first super regional appearance went on hold for several more years after the Shocks got themselves out enough times against Charley Boyce in the second game.