WSU Conducting Internal Review Into Baseball Program

[BostonWu]

From past history with some players and parents of players one gripe they had was how hard it was to get apparel and stuff. For instance...some players were hesitant to ask for a replacement batting glove because Gene would grill them about what happened to it. Don't know enough about Shelly and apparel but sure they will look into seeing who knew what.

If this was indeed the case then it's not a stretch to imagine what might have occurred during that roughly 2 week period between coaches coming and going. Not knowing anything I would think Brent might have the most to lose.

[WSUwatcher]

Two of five attorney's in the Overland Park law office are KU grads. I call BS if either of those two are assigned to this. Conflict of interest.

Fear not, KW. The only person at KU who cares about baseball or its relative status with regard to WSU is the kid a few years ago who popped off about the Chickenhawks becoming the top program in Kansas. Needless to say, those words have long since ended up in the dumpster.

Besides, there are lawyers who graduate from WSU and then go on to KU Law School -- a KU law degree doesn't necessarily make you a Chickenhawk forever.

[DUShock]

I recommend maintaining an even strain until the investigative process is complete and the findings announced. It might be as simple as kids making a run on the candy store or it may be as bad as the kids being led to the candy store by someone who should have known better. We simply do not know at this juncture and it is pointless to speculate. I am looking forward to sitting on the hill in my hunting gear in only three or so short months.

Go Shocks!!!!

[_kai_]

Also just to mention that just a couple years ago, the university couldn't provide cream cheese to visiting recruits on the bagel that they WERE allowed to give to the recruit for breakfast. I know it's apples to oranges, but it's just to show the strictness and specificity of rules in the NCAA.

Improper benefits to an athlete could be as little as giving athletes a 10% discount on merchandise through a vendor, and the stipulation of improper benefits points to the fact that if it was to athletes only and not offered to the student body, it could be deemed an improper benefit. It could be as large as free and extra gear for them to play summerball with. And like @DUShock said, the issue also comes into play is it athletes doing something on their own, or was there a university official involved.

The key part of the situation revolves around intent and who provided the ability for the rule to be broken. Because just because someone on staff may have aided in the improper benefit, it doesn't equate to malice. They may have no realized what they were doing was an improper benefit. If it's something on the scale of the KU ticket scandal where there was definitely malice and conspiracy to defraud, then that's when it's sticky.

[1972Shocker]

I've never had occasion to meet Shelly, so I wouldn't know her from the next yahoo walking down the street, but I have always had the impression she was well thought of by those with closer connections to the program than I.

Yes, I think Shelley was very highly thought of. I suppose it's possible a staffer did something without realizing it was a violation. I have a feeling this will blow over without much damage although I would feel bad if Shelley lost her job. We will have to see how this plays out. I think this I more in the Clevin Hannah realm of issues and not in the more felonious kind of issues some programs face from time to time (including WSU in the past).

[1972Shocker]

The NCAA rules and regs are comparable to our federal tax code. Good luck on not making at least a technical violation at some point.

[1972Shocker]

http://www.kansas.com/2013/12/04/3158723/sources-wsu-baseball-players-purchased.html

Paul's report makes it sound a worse than I was hoping. 16 players and discounts up to 50%. I still don't think we are talking a huge amount of money, hopefully, no more than $3,000 or $4,000 total.

That's enough to draw some suspensions and penalties no doubt together with the repayment of any benefits, but hopefully, the NCAA will be reasonable since the athletic department appears to have taken swift action.

Not sure whether this is the kind of thing you should be delegating to a Secretary, if that is what happened. Seems like the players should have known better based on what has been reported and perhaps Shelley should have known better. Glad it has cropped up in the off-season.

A lot of things we don't know. Hopefully, this is resolved relatively quickly.

[shock10]

Did they paid $180,000 to the QUARTERBACK's dad???

[SB Shock]

Idk, I remember what a single coat did to another Wsu program.

[Rosewood]

First off, in no way shape or form do I think that is the type of thing the NCAA should be involved in. However, they are and that is an obvious rule violation. My guess is that staff got access to discounts and she resold the discounted stuff. Since she paid $10 for it and got $10 back and wasn't giving them anything I bet she thought it was on the up and up. But that doesn't really make sense -- how could anyone who has been around college sports for more than 2 weeks not know that EVERYTHING you do needs to go by a compliance officer?

[SB Shock]

Well ...I wonder if she thought she was the "Mary Kay" of "Under Armour"?

The purchases go back two or three years and, the sources stressed

Members of the current coaching staff discovered the issue and brought it to the attention of the administration.

By self-reporting, the sources said, WSU hopes to lessen possible NCAA penalties and send a message that it will not tolerate skirting NCAA rules. Suspensions from games next spring is a possible consequence for the athletes.

Wombacher, according to the sources, was asked to leave the baseball offices on Tuesday and did so.

[rrshock]

If this in fact the case, she had been there long enough to definitely know the rules. When the school releases its final report, we will all know what really happened. Unnamed sources and hearsay lead to rumors which lead to more sources and hearsay and causes a much bigger problem. We will all know soon enough what will be done.

I suspect she loses her job, if not already gone, and the players do pay back the difference and serve multiple game suspensions. We don't even know if it is current players, former players, or whoever yet.

[WuShock16]

We don't even know if it is current players, former players, or whoever yet.

Paul's latest article said that as many as 16 current players could be involved.

[Kung Wu]

I'm still vague on what the problem is.

Apparel companies routinely give catalogs to college sports teams with heavy discounts in them based on volume orders. If she simply received a catalog from Under Armor with typical volume discounts in them and a bunch of players bought a bunch of stuff (with their own money), driving the cost down due to ordering in volume, exactly what rule was broken?

Anybody on the planet can get those deals if they buy enough stuff. The catalogs and order forms go to colleges and high school teams because they are the ones buying in bulk regularly -- but you and I can call a sales rep for Under Armor and get massive discounts if we are willing to pool our money and buy in volume.

If this is what happened (and that's a big IF, but also the most LIKELY scenario based on my experience), what NCAA rule was broken?

If it wasn't the athletes money being spent or the price they were paying wasn't negotiated with the sales rep (in other words they were being subsidized by a third party like Shelley herself or some other booster or company), then I see a problem. But if this was just a bulk discount negotiated with a sales rep ... I don't see a rule violation at all.

[RoyalShock]

I'm still vague on what the problem is.

Apparel companies routinely give catalogs to college sports teams with heavy discounts in them based on volume orders. If she simply received a catalog from Under Armor with typical volume discounts in them and a bunch of players bought a bunch of stuff (with their own money), driving the cost down due to ordering in volume, exactly what rule was broken?

Anybody on the planet can get those deals if they buy enough stuff. The catalogs and order forms go to colleges and high school teams because they are the ones buying in bulk regularly -- but you and I can call a sales rep for Under Armor and get massive discounts if we are willing to pool our money and buy in volume.

If this is what happened (and that's a big IF, but also the most LIKELY scenario based on my experience), what NCAA rule was broken?

If it wasn't the athletes money being spent or the price they were paying wasn't negotiated with the sales rep (in other words they were being subsidized by a third party like Shelley herself or some other booster or company), then I see a problem. But if this was just a bulk discount negotiated with a sales rep ... I don't see a rule violation at all.

If I'm understanding Paul's article correctly, the problem is that the merchandise wasn't related specifically to baseball. So I assume the NCAA's rule, while allowing the catalog/negotiated discounts you're describing, limit those purchases to, in this case, baseball-specific apparel.