2023 Off-season and Portal Recruiting

[1972Shocker]

Interesting take. Unfortunately it's both punitive and petty (and I am a big proponent of both to be frank) and does nothing for WSU.


Grant got full tuition and NIL north of 20K. Chuck got a complete full ride and an NIL near 50K.


Brock will leverage a deal somewhere (likely LSU or similar) for around 200K then see if his draft team will beat it.

Tolle will be offered the moon.


Until we (and by we I mean everyone bitching on this fine forum multiplied by A THOUSAND) starts ponying up in the neighborhood of say $10 a month specifically for baseball with Armchair Strategies so they have around $420,000 PER YEAR to spend on proven talent ($600K less their 30% cut....and that amount will continue to rise, rapidly, every season) then you might as well forget competing for post season because it's going to be a crap shoot at best every year, and we have zero chance at Omaha or a Natty.

If you're good enough and lucky enough to recruit and keep a talented kid, then he works his butt off and you coach him up and he gets good, he's GONZO, every freaking time. If you can't keep a generational player and even better young man who is loyal beyond loyal like Payton Tolle, then you can't keep anyone. Period, end of discussion.

This is pay for play. We aren't paying, so we aren't playing. It's as simple as that.


To make it worse, we're way behind in this process. Everyone else has a head start and will continue to have more and more money to throw at the best kids. It's rotten to the core, but today, that's how it is.

What I find funny as heck is that the 2022-23 NCAA Division I Manual contains a 42 page section titled: Article 12 Amateurism and Athletics Eligibility

[Shock Top]

How does tuition work with NIL?

I thought baseball only had so many scholarships to split amongst the whole roster. Has that change, or are they giving these kids full ride scholarships at the the detriment to other players on the roster?

[WstateU]

Have to admit, this one gives me continued heartache…

[1972Shocker]

How does tuition work with NIL?

I thought baseball only had so many scholarships to split amongst the whole roster. Has that change, or are they giving these kids full ride scholarships at the the detriment to other players on the roster?

NCAA D1 baseball programs are allowed to offer a maximum of 11.7 athletic scholarships, which can be divided up among a maximum of 27 players. A D1 player on scholarship must receive a minimum scholarship of25% of the total cost of attendance.

But obviously giving a player a full ride scholarship impacts the scholarship money available to the remaining players. If you give an equal scholarship to 27 players they would each receive a 43.34% scholarship. If you give 5 full scholarships to 5 players the remaining 22 players if equalized would each receive a 26.8% scholarship. Of course, you don't have to give scholarships to as many as 27 players. You just can give scholarship to more than 27 players and you can divvy those up any way you want as long as anyone receiving an athletic scholarship gets at least 25%.

No doubt some players receive grants and scholarships that are based on need and academics to add to the kitty. I think this is supposedly independent of and irrespective of an student-athletes athletic abilities, Yeah, right. No doubt that is strictly adhered to,

[BostonWu]

Isn't it as simple as NIL money is filling the baseball scholarship gap and then some?

[1972Shocker]

Isn't it as simple as NIL money is filling the baseball scholarship gap and then some?

No question about it. And that playing field is as level as the Arkansas Ozarks.

[SubGod22]

[Shoxing Me Softly]

Interesting take. Unfortunately it's both punitive and petty (and I am a big proponent of both to be frank) and does nothing for WSU.


Grant got full tuition and NIL north of 20K. Chuck got a complete full ride and an NIL near 50K.


Brock will leverage a deal somewhere (likely LSU or similar) for around 200K then see if his draft team will beat it.

Tolle will be offered the moon.


Until we (and by we I mean everyone bitching on this fine forum multiplied by A THOUSAND) starts ponying up in the neighborhood of say $10 a month specifically for baseball with Armchair Strategies so they have around $420,000 PER YEAR to spend on proven talent ($600K less their 30% cut....and that amount will continue to rise, rapidly, every season) then you might as well forget competing for post season because it's going to be a crap shoot at best every year, and we have zero chance at Omaha or a Natty.

If you're good enough and lucky enough to recruit and keep a talented kid, then he works his butt off and you coach him up and he gets good, he's GONZO, every freaking time. If you can't keep a generational player and even better young man who is loyal beyond loyal like Payton Tolle, then you can't keep anyone. Period, end of discussion.

This is pay for play. We aren't paying, so we aren't playing. It's as simple as that.


To make it worse, we're way behind in this process. Everyone else has a head start and will continue to have more and more money to throw at the best kids. It's rotten to the core, but today, that's how it is.

I didn’t suggest it would help stop anything.

I didn’t suggest don’t give to NIL.

I fully understand this is how it’s done.

So when WSU has some money will they be recruiting other teams players throughout the spring?

Did any of the players that left for money approach WSU in an unofficial way and say hey this is what I need to stay?

I gotta say it’s hard to hand money over to someone who has their hand out while constantly looking for better deal. I get that it’s impossible and not how it works but wish they could lock guys up with 4 year contracts, that would make it much much easier to give. As opposed to give to someone so they can improve on your dime to help another team out the next year.

College athletics has a very transient/minor league/only fans feel to it that makes me not care.

Before everyone could pretend the player had some sort of relationship with the institution/community but that facade is gone now. Why should I care when the player doesn’t? This is just a truck stop on the road to getting theirs. It’s off putting to say the least. With that said I don’t blame anyone trying to earn as much as possible just saying it has ramifications on my desire to support.

[WuDrWu]

Isn't it as simple as NIL money is filling the baseball scholarship gap and then some?

Really good review by 72 on the scholarship divisions. Correct me if I'm wrong, but to be clear, don't the 11.7 scholarships have to be divided between a MINIMUM of 27 and a maximum of 35 (roster limit, sans covid kids)? That just seems a bit confusing to me. And what happened to the whole "we offer you and we're locked in for 4 year thing no matter what" that schools were promising not so long ago, because I'm hearing stories of marginal kids at bigtime NIL schools getting basically blackmailed into bringing friends into the program or lose their benefit packages (scholarships and or NIL offers). Of course, it's all dirty......

Also, there's the clear as mud Alston Grant benefit. I believe that allows a schools to "give" $5980 per year to any student athlete. (South Carolina, as an example, claims on their own website that every single student athlete in every sport will get $5980 per year, regardless of scholarship status) That certainly closes the gap for a lot of kids. But, those grants have to be funded (and maybe there's some kind of tie to academic standing.....again, gray area to say the least) but to repeat, I have no idea how that's done or if it's a separate fund raising effort etc etc..

And even then how they cook the books with out of state vs in state, who gets charged what and where they take credit for partials not used, what they consider fees, books, dorm costs vs independent living, nutrition costs, training table etc etc.


Of course I expect in the next year, 2 max, for baseball to be a fully funded sport, scholarship-wise, further putting WSU behind the financial 8-ball.

[WuDrWu]

I didn’t suggest it would help stop anything.

I didn’t suggest don’t give to NIL.

I fully understand this is how it’s done.

So when WSU has some money will they be recruiting other teams players throughout the spring?

If they want to win, they better.

Did any of the players that left for money approach WSU in an unofficial way and say hey this is what I need to stay?

Officially and unofficially, yes.

I gotta say it’s hard to hand money over to someone who has their hand out while constantly looking for better deal. I get that it’s impossible and not how it works but wish they could lock guys up with 4 year contracts, that would make it much much easier to give. As opposed to give to someone so they can improve on your dime to help another team out the next year.

100% I believe the Alston Grants give you some kind of leeway that can help a school to incentivize players into staying. I don't see why the Collectives couldn't write that into contracts, but then in both cases, if you're the only school doing that, it kind of seems self defeating in the long term.

Student Athlete: Hmm...school A will pay me up front...School B will make me wait.......hmmm.....which one should I choose?

College athletics has a very transient/minor league/only fans feel to it that makes me not care.

100% My interest in basketball is way down and I don't see it getting better. I'm frustrated with baseball too, but I admit a bias with the program. Doesn't mean I like it.

Before everyone could pretend the player had some sort of relationship with the institution/community but that facade is gone now. Why should I care when the player doesn’t? This is just a truck stop on the road to getting theirs. It’s off putting to say the least. With that said I don’t blame anyone trying to earn as much as possible just saying it has ramifications on my desire to support.

Again, 100%. And admittedly, I don't have an answer to that....for you or anyone else. It sucks the big one.

[MikeKennedyRulZ]

[ShockBand]

This is very jaded on my part, but any of the "blessed" messages should read "ble$$ed". No one will put up an honest message like "I'm headed to the place that threw the most dollars at me!" Would the masses feel different if every NIL package was disclosed publicly when someone signs? Like I put elsewhere, if college sports is just going to be "pro lite" I might as well just watch actual pro ball, whether top level or minors, in basketball and baseball.

[Ashockalypse]

Yeah, it’s not recruiting any more, it’s head hunting. Everyone’s for sale and if we aren’t buying we are just going to lose. Looks like the fixed college sports!

[Downtown Shocker Brown]

Dollar amounts are scholarship amounts and are good. NIL packages can mean more.

Hotel/Travel for parents, cars for the kids to drive, gas cards, restaurant certificates, etc. these things add a lot of value to the complete package, are typically much cheaper to the provider, and provide the same benefit when the kid posts about it.

[WstateU]

Really good review by 72 on the scholarship divisions. Correct me if I'm wrong, but to be clear, don't the 11.7 scholarships have to be divided between a MINIMUM of 27 and a maximum of 35 (roster limit, sans covid kids)? That just seems a bit confusing to me. And what happened to the whole "we offer you and we're locked in for 4 year thing no matter what" that schools were promising not so long ago, because I'm hearing stories of marginal kids at bigtime NIL schools getting basically blackmailed into bringing friends into the program or lose their benefit packages (scholarships and or NIL offers). Of course, it's all dirty......

Also, there's the clear as mud Alston Grant benefit. I believe that allows a schools to "give" $5980 per year to any student athlete. (South Carolina, as an example, claims on their own website that every single student athlete in every sport will get $5980 per year, regardless of scholarship status) That certainly closes the gap for a lot of kids. But, those grants have to be funded (and maybe there's some kind of tie to academic standing.....again, gray area to say the least) but to repeat, I have no idea how that's done or if it's a separate fund raising effort etc etc..

And even then how they cook the books with out of state vs in state, who gets charged what and where they take credit for partials not used, what they consider fees, books, dorm costs vs independent living, nutrition costs, training table etc etc.


Of course I expect in the next year, 2 max, for baseball to be a fully funded sport, scholarship-wise, further putting WSU behind the financial 8-ball.

I'm sure this is wishful thinking, but I wonder if Tolle and maybe others were encouraged to enter the portal to check their worth, with a promise to give us a chance before signing anywhere else? I know, I know, I need to face reality. What really pisses me off, is I know there are 'money' people in Wichita who could easily fund all the NIL we'd ever need... seriously, that's a fact. Are they just going to let the ship slowly sink?