Fire Gene Stephenson

[WSUwatcher]

What stupidity. Another stupid excuse. I don't believe the problem is being to "loyal" but having 3 bad recruiting classes in a row that sullentrop has already documented. It is not the kids fault they were recruited into a program where expectations where above their abilities.

Not only can schoools point out that gene has told everybody he doesn't think he can win at WSU anymore, but now gene is on the record saying he is putting his own success ahead of the kids he recruits and he is done with that arcane principal of "loyalty". That should be a real winner.

Not sure, SB, why that particular bit of negative recruiting will be any more effective against WSU than it is against everyone else who does it, which is to say just about everyone else.

[ShockTalk]

What stupidity. Another stupid excuse. I don't believe the problem is being to "loyal" but having 3 bad recruiting classes in a row that sullentrop has already documented. It is not the kids fault they were recruited into a program where expectations where above their abilities.

Not only can schoools point out that gene has told everybody he doesn't think he can win at WSU anymore, but now gene is on the record saying he is putting his own success ahead of the kids he recruits and he is done with that arcane principal of "loyalty". That should be a real winner.

Not sure, SB, why that particular bit of negative recruiting will be any more effective against WSU than it is against everyone else who does it, which is to say just about everyone else.

For discussion purpose, would it have been better to not say anything than admit that you are now going to over recruit and not be as loyal in your recruiting process, regardless of what everyone else does?

Secondly, if Gene does what he has done in the past, say, fill 10 slots with 10 players, but now over recruits by 4 to protect against losing players he didn't expect to, are not those extra 4 players #s 11-14 on your want list? I'd guess the chance of them seeing any real playing time would be remote, maybe ever. Of course, a few could surprise and become valuable over the years.

PS: I also don't believe for a minute that if a high quality recruit wanted to come to WSU, late in the process, that Gene would have said "No son, we have no room for you".

[Ricardo del Rio]

For discussion purpose, would it have been better to not say anything than admit that you are now going to over recruit and not be as loyal in your recruiting process, regardless of what everyone else does?

Secondly, if Gene does what he has done in the past, say, fill 10 slots with 10 players, but now over recruits by 4 to protect against losing players he didn't expect to, are not those extra 4 players #s 11-14 on your want list? I'd guess the chance of them seeing any real playing time would be remote, maybe ever. Of course, a few could surprise and become valuable over the years.

PS: I also don't believe for a minute that if a high quality recruit wanted to come to WSU, late in the process, that Gene would have said "No son, we have no room for you".

I have no dog in this hunt, but I remember a situation, which occurred about ten years ago. Maybe longer ago.

All of the Shocker signed recruits for the upcoming year accepted pro contracts and the Shockers had to re-recruit over the summer. Now that was a downer.

[Ta town]

Doesn't mean you recruit a lessor player 11-15, it simply means you recruit 5 more players. Thinking otherwise suggest there is some sort of Draft involved and with each additional recruit the talent level must go down, which isn't true.

Teams do this, it is a reality, get over it OR quit complaining about losing.

Also this isn't an excuse for Gene, I think he is old and needs to retire, but if WSU wants to "compete at highest level" than they need to do it until the rules change because the big boys do it. Nor do I think not doing it would keep the shox out of regionals, I mean actually competing nationally again.

Nobody gets upset when Marshall sends somebody on their way after a season to bring in better talent. Sometimes not due to effort but just talent upgrade. Nobody gets mad because they understand it's needed to compete.

[Mr. Obvious]

Kids/Parents aren't stupid. If they smell change in the air in the foreseeable future, they will look elsewhere. Same as basketball. This smell is getting stronger as every day passes. Sexton needs to give Gene a vote of confidence so he can fire him.

[Ta town]

Kids/Parents aren't stupid. If they smell change in the air in the foreseeable future, they will look elsewhere. Same as basketball. This smell is getting stronger as every day passes. Sexton needs to give Gene a vote of confidence so he can fire him.

What are you talking about?

[SubGod22]

What are you talking about?

He's got a point.

[Ta town]

Which is what?

[Ta town]

I don't understand why Sexton needs to give Gene a vote of confidence to fire him, nor do I see where they smell change with basketball.

Not much made sense to me, what did his post mean?

[shoxlax]

Kids/Parents aren't stupid. If they smell change in the air in the foreseeable future, they will look elsewhere. Same as basketball. This smell is getting stronger as every day passes. Sexton needs to give Gene a vote of confidence so he can fire him.

I don't think Obvious was looking to our basketball program, just based on his experience with kids. He is right and you add into the negative recruiting going on and kids will not want to touch our program with a ten foot poll. If Sexton says there will be no change then at least kids may still feel the situation is less volatile and come here to play.

[Ta town]

Ok I'm trying to piece together all of this.

Sexton needs to either give Gene a vote of confidence or fire him. Otherwise players won't want to come here as a coaching change in the near future might be possible?

Was that the point?

[Mr. Obvious]

"vote of confidence" was a joke. You get it then your fired. Entire point, if recruits feel that Gene is on his last legs, it will not bode well for recruiting and guranteed it will be used against them.

[ShockTalk]

Doesn't mean you recruit a lessor player 11-15, it simply means you recruit 5 more players. Thinking otherwise suggest there is some sort of Draft involved and with each additional recruit the talent level must go down, which isn't true.

Teams do this, it is a reality, get over it OR quit complaining about losing.

Also this isn't an excuse for Gene, I think he is old and needs to retire, but if WSU wants to "compete at highest level" than they need to do it until the rules change because the big boys do it. Nor do I think not doing it would keep the shox out of regionals, I mean actually competing nationally again.

Nobody gets upset when Marshall sends somebody on their way after a season to bring in better talent. Sometimes not due to effort but just talent upgrade. Nobody gets mad because they understand it's needed to compete.

Don't know if this was directed my way, but if so, how do you deduct I was against over recruiting? If it is common practice, then most all parents/players know it exists and are somewhat prepared.

My two points were: 1) There was nothing to be gained by Krusty's statement of changing how he recruits by blabbing it all over the paper except to try and show how he's just a good ol boy by not doing it in the past and that it has cost him in quality players to the extent of it being a major cause for our recent woe. Another "laying off the blame" statement.

2) As to my example, I suppose Gene could have past on certain players in the past that weren't his prime targets to avoid over recruiting if he got those more prized players, then, upon those targets not coming (or losing exisiting players unexpectedly to the draft), he has found the ones he past on are now taken and he had to lower his sights to sign lesser players than the ones he past on. In any case, I personally don't believe he would have ever turned away a top prime player due to a lack of room or reasonable scholarship needed to get him. In other words, I don't believe Gene would have ever turned down a "difference maker" at any time in the recruiting process.

[WSUwatcher]

Did anyone catch this article in the Eagle over the weekend?

Wichita State baseball might alter roster approach

Seems pretty unremarkable to me. He's saying two things:

1. What we're doing isn't working as well as it used to, so we need to try something else (i.e., what the schools against whom we want to compete are doing). How is that an excuse? Gene and his staff are the ones responsible for recruiting and setting the direction of the program, and everyone knows it, so isn't he just taking responsibility and saying he needs to make a change to improve his results?

2. Our guys need to know that if they don't do things our way, and make progress doing it, they can be replaced. It seems likely that this is a message that's been conveyed in meetings and the locker room, but somehow having it on the public record makes it just that much stronger -- "Wow, Gene and Brent and JT weren't just blowing smoke about buying in and doing it their way; they really mean it." And the first time someone gets recruited over and replaced, the message will just take on that much more force. Frankly, I wish there had been at least some of this happening all along.

Nothing wrong with that; it's the way of the world, and in particular the way of professional sports, which are about the most straightforwardly meritocratic arena you'll ever find. If his guys want to play pro, they might as well get a reality check right away.

Oh, and by the way, SB, I believe what you meant in post #134 was "archaic principle ," not "arcane principal." Either way, though, you got it wrong.

[pinstripers]

He wants to replace the kids when they don't do the job they were expected to do, I want to replace him when he doesn't do the job he was expected to do.