Fire Gene Stephenson

[ShockTalk]

I know a fair number here believe we "owe" Gene and the staff, some to the point of letting him stay as long as he wants. However, for me, any such charity went out the window with letting the staff return after the OU fiasco. My leash, given what Gene had said at the OU podium, was not going to be that long.

They are getting paid very well. At minimum, they should be giving WSU and its fans a performance on the field with results at that pay level when compared to the pay level of other Valley coaching staffs. This staff has the facilities, the fandom, and their own history of success. There is no excuse for their Valley performance over the last 3 to 4 years.

[Rlh04d]

I don't think there is any question that Gene has far exceeded the job he was expected to do when he was hired in 1978. Heck the job he has done over the last 5 years probably exceeds those expectations.

Has the program declined in stature in recent years? It sure has.

Can it be brought back to its former glory? That's debatable but I doubt it.

Would new blood inject some needed new energy and vitality into the program? Yes, I believe it would.

Should/Will Gene be fired? I don't really want to see him fired and I don't think he will be fired although I suppose not renewing his contract is the same thing and that could very well happen. It would be nice if the old war horse would work with ADES, etc to formulate a succcession plan, make it public and implement that in the next two years. Will Gene cooperate in such an approach? Unfortunately, I doubt it.

I've seen the same thing happy with Bowden at Florida State.

There's never going to be an easy answer with an aging legendary coach that doesn't have it in him anymore.

It's hardly just a coaching thing ... when you get to a certain age, nobody likes to be told they can't do something that they've done their entire life anymore. People in their 80s that can barely see anymore don't want to admit they can't drive now, and they'll keep on claiming they're fine right up until they drive into the frozen foods section of a supermarket. (Of course not everyone ... and my great grandmother was a pretty good driver at 90, except she refused to take left hand turns, which made things a bit interesting.)

FSU sat around waiting for Bowden to retire for at least five years after it became clear that he couldn't do the job anymore. And at the end, they had to fire him anyway. His mindset was essentially that he built the program, was bigger than the program, and had every right to destroy the program if he wanted to. There was no way to have any sort of happy ending ... either he would run the program into the dirt in the hope that he'd outlast Patterno (which, turns out, he could have ...), or he'd be forced out.

Also, if Gene's trying to hold out for the all time wins record, FSU is a major player in that, because Mike Martin will likely pass him soon.

Personally, I was pretty torn on the Bowden thing at FSU as well. But at the end of the day, no coach should be bigger than the university. You don't owe a coach a job after he's outlived his ability. You owe him respect, admiration, name a field after him, build a statue, name scholarships after him. But as far as a job, you owe a legend a longer leash than a normal coach, but the leash still has to be there. The program has to be more important than even the coach that built it.

[WstateU]

I've seen the same thing happy with Bowden at Florida State.

There's never going to be an easy answer with an aging legendary coach that doesn't have it in him anymore.

It's hardly just a coaching thing ... when you get to a certain age, nobody likes to be told they can't do something that they've done their entire life anymore. People in their 80s that can barely see anymore don't want to admit they can't drive now, and they'll keep on claiming they're fine right up until they drive into the frozen foods section of a supermarket. (Of course not everyone ... and my great grandmother was a pretty good driver at 90, except she refused to take left hand turns, which made things a bit interesting.)

FSU sat around waiting for Bowden to retire for at least five years after it became clear that he couldn't do the job anymore. And at the end, they had to fire him anyway. His mindset was essentially that he built the program, was bigger than the program, and had every right to destroy the program if he wanted to. There was no way to have any sort of happy ending ... either he would run the program into the dirt in the hope that he'd outlast Patterno (which, turns out, he could have ...), or he'd be forced out.

Also, if Gene's trying to hold out for the all time wins record, FSU is a major player in that, because Mike Martin will likely pass him soon.

Personally, I was pretty torn on the Bowden thing at FSU as well. But at the end of the day, no coach should be bigger than the university. You don't owe a coach a job after he's outlived his ability. You owe him respect, admiration, name a field after him, build a statue, name scholarships after him. But as far as a job, you owe a legend a longer leash than a normal coach, but the leash still has to be there. The program has to be more important than even the coach that built it.

Good analogy... :star:

[WSUwatcher]

... if Gene's trying to hold out for the all time wins record, FSU is a major player in that, because Mike Martin will likely pass him soon...

You don't owe a coach a job after he's outlived his ability. You owe him respect, admiration, name a field after him, build a statue, name scholarships after him. But as far as a job, you owe a legend a longer leash than a normal coach, but the leash still has to be there. The program has to be more important than even the coach that built it.

Pretty good thoughts, Rlh, though I'm not as convinced as many on here that Gene has "outlived his ability" -- although I admit that even I've started to wonder. And I absolutely agree with you that the leash has to be there, and that the program has to be bigger than even the coach who built it. Surely the all-time "biggest" program in any major D-1 sport was UCLA basketball under John Wooden, and I have to believe that the Wizard (who also did an exceptional job of not overstaying) would have agreed with your assertion 100%, too.

Still, the only way Martin will overtake Gene "soon" in victories is if Stephenson's career does indeed end in two years with his current contract. According to the NCAA record book (http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/baseba...2/Coaching.pdf), Gene came into this past season 90 (!) wins ahead of Martin. FSU's recent success and WSU's struggles since 2008 have helped Martin close the gap, and he's already overtaken Gene in winning percentage (.743 to .739 through 2011) and average wins/season (52.3 to 51.8 through 2011, which is remarkable -- I would have thought Gene was safe forever in that category).

But even though the margin is down to 76 at this writing, that's still a bunch of wins to make up, five years' worth even at 15 games a year. And when you're 68, like Martin -- he's actually older than Stephenson is -- five years (at a minimum) is NOT soon.

[Rlh04d]

Pretty good thoughts, Rlh, though I'm not as convinced as many on here that Gene has "outlived his ability" -- although I admit that even I've started to wonder. And I absolutely agree with you that the leash has to be there, and that the program has to be bigger than even the coach who built it. Surely the all-time "biggest" program in any major D-1 sport was UCLA basketball under John Wooden, and I have to believe that the Wizard (who also did an exceptional job of not overstaying) would have agreed with your assertion 100%, too.

Still, the only way Martin will overtake Gene "soon" in victories is if Stephenson's career does indeed end in two years with his current contract. According to the NCAA record book (http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/baseba...2/Coaching.pdf), Gene came into this past season 90 (!) wins ahead of Martin. FSU's recent success and WSU's struggles since 2008 have helped Martin close the gap, and he's already overtaken Gene in winning percentage (.743 to .739 through 2011) and average wins/season (52.3 to 51.8 through 2011, which is remarkable -- I would have thought Gene was safe forever in that category).

But even though the margin is down to 76 at this writing, that's still a bunch of wins to make up, five years' worth even at 15 games a year. And when you're 68, like Martin -- he's actually older than Stephenson is -- five years (at a minimum) is NOT soon.

Guess I was looking at bad numbers, then. The ones I saw had Gene at 1742 wins currently, and Martin at 1721 wins. 76 wins is quite a bit more than 21 at that age :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_college_baseball_coaches_with_1,000_wins

I knew Martin's total was right, so I was assuming Gene's was as well. That'll teach me for paying attention to Wikipedia.

[WSUwatcher]

... That'll teach me for paying attention to Wikipedia.

Exactly right. Wikipedia may be a start to one's fact-finding, but it should seldom if ever be the finish.

[Rlh04d]

Exactly right. Wikipedia may be a start to one's fact-finding, but it should seldom if ever be the finish.

So Gene is now only 20 wins off the record?

Maybe he'll be willing to walk away once he has it. Although I'm sure he'd be more willing to walk away without Martin behind him.

If only Bowden had walked away when he took the record. Instead Patterno quickly passed him, and the academic cheating scandal cost him 12 wins from the record book.

[WSUwatcher]

No, Rlh, based on the numbers in the NCAA record book (i.e., through 2011) plus what has happened this year, Garrido now stands at 1847 (in 44 seasons), Stephenson's at 1798 (35 seasons), and Martin's at 1723 (33 seasons) and counting.

[GoShockers89]

Bump

[KC Shox]

Three things will happen this year, Gene and staff will concede and pack it in, the team will pack it in or both. This may be the beginning of the end of an era. Is it too early to put a thread together about possible replacement coaches?

[tru2thaduce]

Just look at the stands.I know it's early but there a lot of familer faces not there.I won't be there tomorrow and I've only missed a few games since 2000.Gene must go.

[shocker22]

I am embarassed by the state of our program. Gene has ruined what he built due to his ego and stubborn ways. He is a dinosaur and needs to go. This is coming form someone that admired Gene as a kid and wanted to play at WSU. He is now a joke.

[1972Shocker]

Three things will happen this year, Gene and staff will concede and pack it in, the team will pack it in or both. This may be the beginning of the end of an era. Is it too early to put a thread together about possible replacement coaches?

I simply can not fathom Gene conceding and walking away. He will milk it all the way to the end. $530,000 is simply to much money to walk away from.

Not sure the team will pack it in either. However, they simply are not that talented so it may not make that much difference either way.

Nor do I see WSU terminating Gene early. 2 down, 110 to go.

Not to early to put together a thread of possible replacements, but no hurry either. IMHO.

[tripleshock]

He will not walk away.

[KC Shox]

I simply can not fathom Gene conceding and walking away. He will milk it all the way to the end. $530,000 is simply to much money to walk away from.

Not sure the team will pack it in either. However, they simply are not that talented so it may not make that much difference either way.

Nor do I see WSU terminating Gene early. 2 down, 110 to go.

Not to early to put together a thread of possible replacements, but no hurry either. IMHO.

You're right. I forgot he's got that nice big house out east to finish paying for. Will see how big of eggs ADES has in the near future.