Healthcare Hypocricy?

[WuDrWu]

But they are using reconciliation, a rule never before used for this level of socialistic change, correct?

[SubGod22]

What legal theory or theories would provide a basis for a constitutional challenge?

I'm not the expert but reading thru the article they had some constitutional law people talking about it some. And I don't know how many states would have to join in for something to really have an impact or for them to change things or whatever. But I'm always interested to see what can/will happen when states at least try to stand up to Washington and say you can't continue to regulate our citizens like you are and take more power for yourselves. Washington has more power than it was ever supposed to have and I find the struggle between them and the states at least interesting.

Well – a fundamental problem (and I only skimmed the article) is that federal law supersedes state law – when the feds choose to “occupy” a field. You see this with environmental legislation for example. States can be more restrictive but they can’t turn the knob the other way – so to speak - the fed is the floor in terms of regulation.

Now the federal government compelling its citizens to purchase a product I don’t think, and I could be wrong, has ever been done. Also, should the House use the “Slaughter Rule” to pass the Senate bill – that might raise some constitutional issues as well.

I just wonder if the States are spinning their wheels.

The procedure now dubbed the "Slaughter Rule" has actually been used a lot over the years. The real name for this procedure is a self-executing bill also known as "deem and pass". It was first used in 1933 and has been used numerous times since then. One of the heaviest users of this rule was the 2005-06 House which used it 36 times (Republicans had control then).

It has been used more frequently in recent years by both parties.

I guess that doesn't necessarily make it right or constitutional, but there is certainly a lot of precedence for using that procedure.

I don't know if it was due to all of the protests (including the Washington Post) but it looks like they are NOT going to use the deem and pass procedure after all to pass the health care bill.

Maybe there were some hold-outs that would only vote yes if they included a straight up and down vote on the Senate Bill.

From what little I've heard today it sounds like there were some "promises" made to get a few extra votes. Needless to say, a number of these people will be looking for work in the not too distant future.

[ISASO]

Congrats America, thanks to Obama, Pelosi and Reid your country just changed forever.

Healthcare passes 219-212 - the Senate bill will become law. That's the Senate bill with the kickbacks and bribes. Word has it the Senate will refuse to address the "fixes" from the House.

Castro, Chavez, Lenin, Stalin and Marx are all smiling wherever they are tonight.

And you know, Congress members should be smiling too - they exempted themselves from it all. That's the ultimate "Screw You America".

[ABC]

It's a long fight.

http://www.novemberiscoming.com/

[SB Shock]

wonder what the unions are going to do when the Senate doesn't accept the bribe in the house version where their insurance plans will be taxed because it is to good.

[shox1989]

Congrats America, thanks to Obama, Pelosi and Reid your country just changed forever.

Healthcare passes 219-212 - the Senate bill will become law. That's the Senate bill with the kickbacks and bribes. Word has it the Senate will refuse to address the "fixes" from the House.

Castro, Chavez, Lenin, Stalin and Marx are all smiling wherever they are tonight.

And you know, Congress members should be smiling too - they exempted themselves from it all. That's the ultimate "Screw You America".

Actually I think the bill a few years ago that greatly expanded Medicare to include prescription drugs was even worse than this bill (Medicare part D)

I was watching a show the other day (I think it was on the Fox Business Channel) that said that the Medicare part D bill will add $15 trillion to our national debt.

It's hard to imagine after Congress did that to us that they would discuss any health care expansion bill.

The bill they passed today sounds like it basically requires everyone to buy private health insurance and the people who can't afford it will get a subsidy from the government to help them pay for it.

I really don't think it will do everything that Obama thinks it will. I think most people without insurance aren't going to go out and buy it just because they pass a law saying they have to.

I think in reality no more than 5 to 10 million people at best will take advantage of this bill.

This issue isn't going to go away. Health care costs are going to continue to rise faster than inflation and Congress will be back probably several times in the future trying to address it.

This bill is far from our first step to socialism. Our first step towards socialistic health care was the passage of Medicare in 1965. Or maybe even the creation of the government hospitals and government run health care for our Veterans after World War II.

It's just another step further down the road. A path neither party has tried to reverse (see medicare part D expansion under Bush and the Republican controlled Congress).

[Maggie]

I know I have been harping on Rep. Paul Ryan but he was exceptional on Sunday and throughout this debate. Ryan maintains he will not seek the GOP nomination in 2012, and I don’t know if he knows the first thing about foreign policy – but I would give him serious consideration should he decide to run.

Ryan on the House floor last night:

“This is really not a debate about prices, coverage, or choosing doctors. This is ultimately about what kind of country we are going to be in the 21st Century. America is not just a nationality. It is not just a mass of land from Hawaii to Maine from Wisconsin to Florida. America is an idea. It’s the most pro-human idea ever designed by mankind. Our founders got it right when they wrote in the Declaration of Independence that our rights come from Nature and Nature’s God not from government. Should we now subscribe to an ideology where government creates rights, is solely responsible for delivering these artificial rights, and then systematically rations these rights? Do we believe that the goal of government is to promote equal opportunity for all Americans to make the most of their lives or do we now believe that government’s role is to equalize the results of people’s lives? The philosophy advanced on this floor by this majority today is so paternalist and so arrogant. It’s condescending. And it tramples upon the principals that have made America so exceptional.”

:good:

Rep. Paul Ryan

[SubGod22]

State Republicans are blocking the State from passing anything to to try and fight this crap.

Republicans on the left help defeat Health Care Freedom Amendment

At the bottom of the article there's a link to video of a constitutional professor stating the constitutional implications of Obamacare. I haven't seen it yet as I can't watch at work

[SubGod22]

If Past is Prologue When it Comes to Guesstimating Actual Health Care Costs, Well, it Was Nice Knowing You All...

There's a nice little chart to look at. We've heard the numbers before but still...

[Maggie]

Can you make the argument? If so, do so. :noidea:


I am off the bench from this point forward (notwithstanding my "voice" will be muted) – I don’t hear the argument from the masses. I would like to know you understand.

[ABC]

Can you make the argument? If so, do so. :noidea:


I am off the bench from this point forward (notwithstanding my "voice" will be muted) – I don’t hear the argument from the masses. I would like to know you understand.

Clarify, please.

[rjl]

Good job, congress! It's nice to see what can happen when the government actually gives a damn about people.

[Maggie]

Can you make the argument? If so, do so. :noidea:


I am off the bench from this point forward (notwithstanding my "voice" will be muted) – I don’t hear the argument from the masses. I would like to know you understand.

Clarify, please.

I can't. I left my account open (I have been working from home) and my wife's cousin apparently decided to post. I'll ask him.

He is a clown. But we do like him.

[WuDrWu]

Good job, congress! It's nice to see what can happen when the government actually gives a damn about people.

ONE AND HALF TRILLION (with a T) plus every year in mostly failed and speeding towards financially insolvent entitlement programs I suppose isn't giving a damn about people?

There is NOTHING more dangerous in this world than a stupid person with an education. You are exhibit one. Your stupidity has no bounds. Go chase another ambulance.

[SubGod22]

Seven minutes later....13 States sue over Obamacare law.