NFL Kneeling

[RoyalShock]

But it seems like any time people of color peacefully protest, people have a problem with it.

I have a problem with any individual or group who protest something that isn't actually a problem, and which only serves to further divide the country.

The reason it appears people have more of a problem with NFL players than white supremacists is that one group is an insignificant and extreme outlier that 99.5% of the country couldn't care less about. While the other is part of the fabric of our society and culture and are plastered on our TVs and media for 4-5 months out of every year.

We should give the white supremacists exactly as much attention as they deserve, which is zero. Ignore them. Their beliefs are archaic and so far outside the mainstream (in spite of what the media would like us to think) that they aren't a threat unless we allow them to be. Was anyone actually talking about the credibility of what they had to say last month? Nope. The kneeling controversy has probably already had a more significant effect on our daily lives, with far more potential to influence and cause division.

[ShockerPhi]

I have a problem with any individual or group who protest something that isn't actually a problem, and which only serves to further divide the country.

The reason it appears people have more of a problem with NFL players than white supremacists is that one group is an insignificant and extreme outlier that 99.5% of the country couldn't care less about. While the other is part of the fabric of our society and culture and are plastered on our TVs and media for 4-5 months out of every year.

We should give the white supremacists exactly as much attention as they deserve, which is zero. Ignore them. Their beliefs are archaic and so far outside the mainstream (in spite of what the media would like us to think) that they aren't a threat unless we allow them to be. Was anyone actually talking about the credibility of what they had to say last month? Nope. The kneeling controversy has probably already had a more significant effect on our daily lives, with far more potential to influence and cause division.

Thanks for your responses. I understand what you mean. I'm glad we can talk about this in a civil manner.

[jazztrane]

I'm late to this discussion, and honestly there were so many posts to quote in agreement I won't even try to catch them all. Some additional thoughts I had this morning and while reading:
1. We're all supposed to support the protesters right to free speech, but in turn they say to those of us who are offended "I know so and so in the military and they're not offended, so you have no right to."
2. I agree with all that has been said about the players being employees and in that capacity do not have total free speech while representing their employers. The NFL mandates what type of socks they wear for crying out loud, and like someone said wouldn't allow the sticker for the police officers killed in Dallas, but this is totally fine? Didn't they try to stop Tebow from kneeling after he scored?
3. Its very easy to take for granted the freedoms we have, and those who have died to give them to us. To me the national anthem is a short moment to stop and think, in an effort to appreciate their sacrifice. To turn it into anything else is what bothers me. And yes I'm as pro-life as they come, but if players were kneeling to protest abortion I would want them to stop, abortion has nothing to do with the national anthem.
4. I felt like ample attention had been brought to this issue already (or non issue as the link above shows) but what had they done with the attention? What do they want? What they propose as steps to get there? The further protests now don't further the dialogue, they just deepen the divide.
5. Between the sporadic kneeling (and concussion issues as well, in all honesty) I have gotten turned off by the NFL so I had only been watching Chiefs games, no others, but I will likely boycott as well. I know that makes me a racist, white supremacist, but to continue to watch would imply to endorse something I don't agree with, so the alternative is tuning out.

Regarding the Shockers, already last year some players made it evident by looking around, pacing/walking, that they were not observing the anthem, so I'm concerned what we'll see this year.

[Aargh]

I can't support anything that is "you must...or else" in regards to the flag, the anthem, or about anything else. That's too reminiscent of Nazi Germany, North Korea, and other countries that I'd rather not emulate. I'm a vet, and I don't feel disrespected by these actions.

Those who are not happy with the status quo will protest. Those who are happy with the status quo will object to those who protest. It breaks down to two sides. One side says, "if we change some things it will benefit my cause". The other side says, "if we change anything it may in some way harm my cause".

Here's an easy solution. Just have the TV cameras focus on the flag during the anthem.

[pinstripers]

Keep them in the locker room by NFL decree until after might work

[Walker]

The longer this thread gets, the more I stand by what I said here. The bigger problem most people have is that they don't agree with the movement, not the actual kneeling.

Any of you considering a boycott: what if the same type of protest were done for a cause you believed in? Hypothetically, let's say it's 2009, democrats are in charge of the government, and a major pro-abortion bill passes. In protest of the recent events, some NFL players take to kneeling during the national anthem. Do you still boycott the NFL if the NFL doesn't take a hardline stance against the kneeling?

If the answer is no, then all this disrespect stuff is silly. If yes, it's totally pointless to re-hash the same lame debate about whether or not systemic racism exists since it's obviously a debate about the need to worship the flag.

I wouldn't support kneeling for the national anthem even if they were doing it for a cause I believed in. My hope would be that the athletes would take action with their vote and form of protest that did not dishonor our flag and country.

[Aargh]

Keep them in the locker room by NFL decree until after might work

I am in total agreement with this. It would end this form of expression about a perceived problem. This form of expression has proven intensely controversial, so not allowing it is a good idea.

That isn't going to make the perceived problem, that is the source of the kneeling, go away. Another form of protest to bring attention to that perceived problem would be found. If a protest doesn't get a lot of attention it's a useless protest. getting a lot of attention is usually controversial.

The perceived problem is not going to be eliminated by hiding the protests.

We've already been through, "there are non-violent ways to get your point across". Now we have "don't use that non-violent form of protest". Protests must, but their very nature, cause some controversy. If a pattern develops of not allowing a protest of a perceived problem, that perceived problem grows like a Stage 4 cancer.

Trump has a pattern that indicates he's probably not well-received by those wanting some reforms in the area of race. He should STFU on subjects like this and let his speech writers control every word that comes out of his mouth. He's become somewhat of a lightning rod in these areas.

[wufan]

The longer this thread gets, the more I stand by what I said here. The bigger problem most people have is that they don't agree with the movement, not the actual kneeling.

Any of you considering a boycott: what if the same type of protest were done for a cause you believed in? Hypothetically, let's say it's 2009, democrats are in charge of the government, and a major pro-abortion bill passes. In protest of the recent events, some NFL players take to kneeling during the national anthem. Do you still boycott the NFL if the NFL doesn't take a hardline stance against the kneeling?

If the answer is no, then all this disrespect stuff is silly. If yes, it's totally pointless to re-hash the same lame debate about whether or not systemic racism exists since it's obviously a debate about the need to worship the flag.

I have two moral (not legal) issues with the protest:

1. You shouldn't use the National Anthem as a time to protest. It should be a time of reflection, good and bad, on what the country is and what it can be. Protesting against the ideals of the United States is bad form if you want to maintain those ideals.

I would not support any protest during this time.

2. Since they are protesting, I disagree with their movement. The movement has been brought to attention, so it's time to start talking about ideas.

One can disagree or agree with either the movement or the form of protest or both. They don't have to be mutually exclusive.

I have no plans to boycott the NFL. I have also thought through my early analysis and would be against a law that compels by force one to stand for the anthem.

[wufan]

I find it alarming that a lot of people have more of a problem with NFL players kneeling than Nazis and White Supremacists marching and chanting hate speech.

Some folks in the BLM movement have made this protest about race. I am equally against peaceful protests of any race against another, but I would support their opportunity to protest and would contest them with ideas. The idea of white priveledge is the inverse of white power. Both ideas are detestable as they remove the individual and replace with the collective. No longer can anyone be judged based on merit, but must be judged based on group. These ideas should be fought.

[wufan]

A wise man once said, "Dissent is the highest form of patriotism." I think that concept behind that statement is lost on many of the people who want the kneelers fired or who suggest one must stand for the anthem in order to be "patriotic."

Thomas Jefferson was concerned that the government would infringe on individual liberties. I do not believe he would support those that dissented for group identity.

[DUShock]

Not that anyone has asked, but my two cents is this: It is their right to protest, with the consent of their employers, and it is my belief that the players are acting in poor form.

[shoxilla]

We have a president who is simply a Troll.
He wants you to look at what he is pointing at so you won't see what he is doing with the other hand.
He has done this almost everyday proclaiming a new "crisis" to keep most in a permanent state of distraction.
The great distractor. The great confuser.
What a GOPiece of Crap.

of course as always, I don't mean that in a bad way....

[wufan]

We have a president who is simply a Troll.
He wants you to look at what he is pointing at so you won't see what he is doing with the other hand.
He has done this almost everyday proclaiming a new "crisis" to keep most in a permanent state of distraction.
The great distractor. The great confuser.
What a GOPiece of Crap.

I don't know that he's really trying to distract. I think he's just inept in a lot of ways.

[pinstripers]

http://theblacksphere.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/NFL-14.jpg

[ShockingButTrue]

Apparently those in dissension are hoping for a public dialogue, public awareness, accountability, or whatever else anyone wants to ascribe to it, to white racism, if I understand it correctly.

Numerous points to the contrary are out there, citing the Harvard report as one. However, this is not a point that say, for example, E. Holder wants to address as he has -Ahem- stated before. Maybe the President was just doing his part to stimulate a counterpoint that many get kind of uncomfortable addressing, if addressing at all.

I've been pulled over in my lifetime by the police anywhere from 15-25 times (conservative est.) and never once did I take it personally. If I would have decided to run during ANY of them in high-speed fashion, risking the lives of the police who stopped me, as well as innocent civilians, I believe there is a 99 % probability I would be facing some serious, possibly fatal, for myself or others, consequences. Isn't this part of the debate? No?