NFL Kneeling

[Rocky Mountain Shock]

Thomas Jefferson was concerned that the government would infringe on individual liberties. I do not believe he would support those that dissented for group identity.

Thomas Jefferson never said that. It is sometimes incorrectly attributed to him, and it is unclear exactly where the exact quote originated. https://www.monticello.org/site/jeff...ious-quotation

At any rate, Thomas Jefferson lived in a dark era of our nation's history when group identity was the norm. It's a shame there are some people alive today that believe what these players are doing is attempting to promote group identity. Much the opposite, it is clear they are protesting against it. Though "explicit racism" has been largely eradicated from this country, "implicit racism" continues to be a problem--and this confession coming from a 39 year old white guy living in the suburbs. But I have black friends who experience it; it exists, let's admit it as a country and work to resolve it.

http://www.encyclopedia.com/social-sciences/encyclopedias-almanacs-transcripts-and-maps/implicit-racism

[SHOXJOCK]

Thomas Jefferson never said that. It is sometimes incorrectly attributed to him, and it is unclear exactly where the exact quote originated. https://www.monticello.org/site/jeff...ious-quotation

At any rate, Thomas Jefferson lived in a dark era of our nation's history when group identity was the norm. It's a shame there are some people alive today that believe what these players are doing is attempting to promote group identity. Much the opposite, it is clear they are protesting against it. Though "explicit racism" has been largely eradicated from this country, "implicit racism" continues to be a problem--and this confession coming from a 39 year old white guy living in the suburbs. But I have black friends who experience it; it exists, let's admit it as a country and work to resolve it.

http://www.encyclopedia.com/social-s...mplicit-racism

While I agree that implicit racism exists and as a country we need to work on it. Your link to Implicit Racism is unfortunately a one way street. All you need to do is get on social media to see explicit and implicit racism from both white racist and black racist people. Until the 90% of people on both sides that are in between the white & black racist stand up and say enough already. It will continue in the wrong direction. With the help of our fine media that seem to want a race war.

[wufan]

Thomas Jefferson never said that. It is sometimes incorrectly attributed to him, and it is unclear exactly where the exact quote originated. https://www.monticello.org/site/jeff...ious-quotation

At any rate, Thomas Jefferson lived in a dark era of our nation's history when group identity was the norm. It's a shame there are some people alive today that believe what these players are doing is attempting to promote group identity. Much the opposite, it is clear they are protesting against it. Though "explicit racism" has been largely eradicated from this country, "implicit racism" continues to be a problem--and this confession coming from a 39 year old white guy living in the suburbs. But I have black friends who experience it; it exists, let's admit it as a country and work to resolve it.

http://www.encyclopedia.com/social-s...mplicit-racism

I'm not sold on implicit racism as a cause for concern in this country. A few reasons why:

It's hard to measure. The tests utilized to show implicit biases are non-repeatable.

What do you do about it? Being that it is hard to measure, bias training has shown no effectiveness.

Implicit racism is a subcategory of racism in which explicit racism is not practiced. If I believe something stupid, but don't act on it, what problem have I caused?

If my implicit biasis turns to explicit bias, there are laws to protect the victim.

Also, it is not clear they are protesting against group identity to me.

[CBB_Fan]

I am in total agreement with this. It would end this form of expression about a perceived problem. This form of expression has proven intensely controversial, so not allowing it is a good idea.

We've already been through, "there are non-violent ways to get your point across". Now we have "don't use that non-violent form of protest". Protests must, but their very nature, cause some controversy.

Protests cause some sort of controversy, but I think effective protests should be:

• planned
• specific
• pro-active

For instance, people were very anti-protest in the 1960s. Public opinion wasn't necessarily against the idea of racial equality, but upwards of 70-80% of people thought that protesters hurt that cause.

But even then, there is a distinct difference between effective and uneffective protests. Sit-ins caused controversy, but they effectively targeted segregated restaurants. The Freedom Riders did the same for transportation.

But things like the Birmingham riots caused no positive change. A brief explanation of events: a black bystander saw a police officer place a bomb at the residence of A.D. King, which exploded. Another bombing occurred at a black-owned motel that had recently hosted MLK Jr. Black witnesses blamed the police, which escalated into a throwing rocks and small objects. After the second blast, that escalated into the knifing of white police officer J. N. Spivey. That escalated into a mob of 2,500 which blocked police and firemen from responding to a fire. That escalated to state troopers with machineguns and a tank forcing the remaining mob and reporters into the bombed motel lobby (with 50 injuries) without food or water.

Emotional "anger at circumstances or organizations" protests are essentially just riots. They provoke fear and fear alone, and promote only the escalation of violence.

What we are seeing in the NFL is closer to the the Birmingham riots than a sit-in even though it is non-violent. It is more an unplanned emotional response to Trump's comments and lingering feelings of anger towards white supremacists and police than any sort of planned action against injustice.

To give an example of a more productive protest, Kaepernick could have instead chosen to wear a body camera in public. When questioned for his odd choice of apparel, he could have said "I am wearing this camera as a form of protest. If I can wear a body camera, so can the police."

Then we have a clear goal, changing local laws to force police to wear body cameras, and a proactive plan to accomplish that goal in a non-violent manner. THAT is how positive change happens.

[CBB_Fan]

I'll boycott my family kneeling for lower taxes and more support for children's hospitals if they do it while disrespecting the flag and the men and women that serve this great country. And I don't care if it's my mother going to see her mother.

And I'll say this.....I don't see a heck of a lot of difference between BLM and the KKK. Both are unintelligent, race baiting, race hating, evil individuals. We can argue this and that....both are awful groups of people (at their core).

President Obama had BLM (what do we want? Dead cops. When do we want them? Now!) to the White House. Sure I was irritated, but the MSM? Not at all.

Can you even FATHOM the response if President Trump were to have a beer forum with the Grand Dragon? Believe me, the response would be bigly.

The KKK isn't just an organization of unintelligent, race baiting, race hating, evil individuals. It is a terrorist organization. I don't mean that in a hypothetical sense. The KKK was started to terrorize newly freed black slaves, to prevent them from voting. The silly ghost get-up isn't just dress-up, it was originally adopted because the KKK claimed to be ghosts of Confederate soldiers to frighten the very superstitious ex-slave population.

Let me be absolutely clear here. You are compared a group with blood on their hands to a group without.

The KKK engaged in guerilla warfare and killed thousands, repeat, thousands of ex-slaves. The violence was enough of a deterrent that entire counties failed to register a single Republican vote (take St. Landry Parish in 1868, with over a thousand registered Republicans). This isn't even going into the more recent assassinations, bombings, and murders.

Personally I think BLM is a terrible organization because it does everything wrong. Its protests are unplanned, unspecific, and completely reactive. All they do is escalate matters and create division.

But they are not a terrorist organization. They aren't killing people. They aren't dragging people from their homes and lynching them. They aren't bombing churches. Their body count is 0. I'm sure you are going to blame them for the Dallas police shootings, but that is factually inaccurate. Micah Xavier Johnson was not a member of BLM, and his attack was condemned the BLM movement.

BLM is a crappy, divisive organization with a terrible track record but it is still wrong to compare them to an association of terrorists. It isn't just morally or emotionally wrong, it is factually wrong.

[CBB_Fan]

Last of my thoughts, the Nate Boyer (former Green Beret, now NFL long snapper) letter to Colin Kaepernick:

Mr. Boyer writes:


"I’m not judging you for standing up for what you believe in. It’s your inalienable right. What you are doing takes a lot of courage, and I’d be lying if I said I knew what it was like to walk around in your shoes. I’ve never had to deal with prejudice because of the color of my skin, and for me to say I can relate to what you’ve gone through is as ignorant as someone who’s never been in a combat zone telling me they understand what it’s like to go to war. Even though my initial reaction to your protest was one of anger, I’m trying to listen to what you’re saying and why you’re doing it." Mr. Boyer goes on to write "There are already plenty people fighting fire with fire, and it’s just not helping anyone or anything. So I’m just going to keep listening, with an open mind. I look forward to the day you're inspired to once again stand during our national anthem. I'll be standing right there next to you."

Kaepernick invited Nate to San Diego where the two had a 90 minute discussion and Nate proposed Colin kneel instead of sit.

But why kneel? In a military funeral, after the flag is taken off the casket of the fallen military member, it is smartly folded 13 times and then presented to the parents, spouse or child of the fallen member by a fellow service member while KNEELING.


The two decided that kneeling for the flag would symbolize his reverence for those that paid the ultimate sacrifice while still allowing Colin to peacefully protest the injustices he saw.

I've already my piece on why I think Kaepernick's protest is ineffective, but I think this should be considered when people discuss the motivation and whether or not it respects the troops.

[pinstripers]

The KKK of today compares to BLM.

[WuDrWu]

The KKK of today compares to BLM.

Actually, BLM is FAR more divisive than the KKK today. As I stated, you can argue this and that and I knew the resident SJWs would take the bait. Gotta find the lowest bar setting. Let's everyone remember that Christians slaughtered humans around the world in the name of God. Christians are FAR worse.

Asshats. BLM suck. The KKK suck. I care about today.

[CBB_Fan]

Actually, BLM is FAR more divisive than the KKK today. As I stated, you can argue this and that and I knew the resident SJWs would take the bait. Gotta find the lowest bar setting. Let's everyone remember that Christians slaughtered humans around the world in the name of God. Christians are FAR worse.

Asshats. BLM suck. The KKK suck. I care about today.

To be frank, I do not like or support BLM. I think they hurt their cause and unnecessarily escalate feelings of racial animosity on both sides, largely out of sheer idiocy. But that does not mean they compare to the KKK. Then, now, or ever. Stupidity is still better than evil. Advocating for less police brutality in a dumb way is still infinitely better than advocating for the genocide of non-white people. Calling the BLM terrorists or saying they are just as bad as the KKK is just furthering the problem by making the same mistakes BLM makes every protest. Sweeping emotional responses don't make the country better, they just make the person who says them feel better while escalating things between both sides and causing division.

[Aargh]

Trump is on kind of shaky ground calling out NFL players for disrespecting veterans. Trump's tweets about McCain seem to disrespect not only a veteran, but a veteran who was a POW for 5 years. McCain is a veteran who deserves respect even if he disagrees with you.

[wufan]

Trump is on kind of shaky ground calling out NFL players for disrespecting veterans. Trump's tweets about McCain seem to disrespect not only a veteran, but a veteran who was a POW for 5 years. McCain is a veteran who deserves respect even if he disagrees with you.

Trumps always on shaky ground.

[shockfan89_]

Trump is on kind of shaky ground calling out NFL players for disrespecting veterans. Trump's tweets about McCain seem to disrespect not only a veteran, but a veteran who was a POW for 5 years. McCain is a veteran who deserves respect even if he disagrees with you.

Trump also got called out by both sides when he did it. Now one side seems to be fine with disrespecting veterans even after calling out Trump for doing it. Seems like that puts them on shaky ground as well.

[CBB_Fan]

Trump also got called out by both sides when he did it. Now one side seems to be fine with disrespecting veterans even after calling out Trump for doing it. Seems like that puts them on shaky ground as well.

6 posts above yours:

"The two [Colin Kaepernick and Nate Boyer] decided that kneeling for the flag would symbolize his reverence for those that paid the ultimate sacrifice while still allowing Colin to peacefully protest the injustices he saw."

Kaepernick started kneeling to protest the state of the country, but tried to do so in a way he thought would honor the sacrifice of the troops. That doesn't really apply to the vast majority that are kneeling mainly as a response to Trump, but that was the original intention. That shows significantly more respect than "I like people that weren't captured."

The main reason this is seen as an attack on the flag, veterans, apple-pie, and the American way is because it is convenient for the right to contextualize it in that way. It is Kaepernick's fault for walking into such an easy misinterpretation, but it still is a misinterpretation of his intent.

[shockfan89_]

6 posts above yours:

"The two [Colin Kaepernick and Nate Boyer] decided that kneeling for the flag would symbolize his reverence for those that paid the ultimate sacrifice while still allowing Colin to peacefully protest the injustices he saw."

Kaepernick started kneeling to protest the state of the country, but tried to do so in a way he thought would honor the sacrifice of the troops. That doesn't really apply to the vast majority that are kneeling mainly as a response to Trump, but that was the original intention. That shows significantly more respect than "I like people that weren't captured."

The main reason this is seen as an attack on the flag, veterans, apple-pie, and the American way is because it is convenient for the right to contextualize it in that way. It is Kaepernick's fault for walking into such an easy misinterpretation, but it still is a misinterpretation of his intent.

With all due respect to Nate Boyer. BS!! F'ING STAND!! Sit out the game if you want to make a statement. Call a news conference, host a forum of players at the pro bowl and make a united statement. There is just no gray area. When that flag is draped over coffins returning from battle nobody F'ING KNEELS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry CBB_fan, this is in no way directed at you as the messenger. There are just many of us that have seen too many sacrifices, and too many good men and women die for that flag to make this your decision for a peaceful protest. I think your post 6 above was great information, and good context, it just doesn't fly with me.

There is no doubt Kaepernick picked a controversial time to make his "stand". Maybe too controversial, especially for a cause that factually doesn't exist. Now if he wanted to take up the cause of what is leading to the real epidemic (black on black crime in inner-cities, of which Kaepernick's complaint is a symptom of), I would stand next to him and help find solutions. But nobody seems to want to talk about that...

[Aargh]

The players aren't kneeling to show support for BLM. I think that's getting thrown out because it's an easy, although misdirected, target if people want to be angry.

I found this in the twitter feed of one the basketball players. It's pretty tough to refute, as was noted by that player.

https://twitter.com/Blueraydre/status/912486986115633152