Charlottesville riots

[shockmonster]

I have to confess I have not read this entire thread, but I am really hoping you're not equivocating and excusing what happened.

Today's discussion should not be about what we dislike on the left and the various attributes we want to assign to them. Today's discussion should be what we, as a nation, are going to do about right-wing racist groups, not anyone on the left.

Something needs to be done about this. I think there are legitimate grievances, but the root of the problem was what the perpretrator did and who encouraged him to do it.

Until both sides say there are problems that are on the right AND left, this problem will only get worse. Neither side was made up of Charlottesvillarians. The antifa is being bankrolled by George Soros and has been clashing with police, etc. for a while and the KKK has wanted to divide the country also. People like YOU and I need to call out extremists on both sides. Neither side was made up of Virginians and came to Va. from other states through social media and both side holds blame and to argue whether each side is equal is an exercise in futility and will get us nowhere.

[ShockTalk]

Protesters topple confederate statue in Durham, NC. See the tweet video.

Thoughts? Comments?

[shocka khan]

Link me

Done.

http://www.sltrib.com/news/nation-world/2017/08/13/alleged-driver-of-car-that-plowed-into-charlottesville-crowd-was-a-nazi-sympathizer-former-teacher-says/

Looks like he started young.

[shocka khan]

Until both sides say there are problems that are on the right AND left, this problem will only get worse. Neither side was made up of Charlottesvillarians. The antifa is being bankrolled by George Soros and has been clashing with police, etc. for a while and the KKK has wanted to divide the country also. People like YOU and I need to call out extremists on both sides. Neither side was made up of Virginians and came to Va. from other states through social media and both side holds blame and to argue whether each side is equal is an exercise in futility and will get us nowhere.

Don't disagree with you, what we had here was a bunch of people who were looking for trouble and found it.

However, for the alt-right to start to become paid professional agitators smacks of the old Black Panther Party. As a result, I do not believe there should be any sort of equivocation.

They should have never been allowed in Charlottesville and I hope they don't ever get another permit to march.

The good news is the violence over the weekend motivated Texas A&M to cancel an upcoming alt-right rally.

[pinstripers]

Done.

http://www.sltrib.com/news/nation-world/2017/08/13/alleged-driver-of-car-that-plowed-into-charlottesville-crowd-was-a-nazi-sympathizer-former-teacher-says/

Looks like he started young.

Uh, no.........about 20 seconds in, "Who threw the first punch or launched the first rock was, it seemed, impossible to say"

[wufan]

I have to confess I have not read this entire thread, but I am really hoping you're not equivocating and excusing what happened.

Today's discussion should not be about what we dislike on the left and the various attributes we want to assign to them. Today's discussion should be what we, as a nation, are going to do about right-wing racist groups, not anyone on the left.

Something needs to be done about this. I think there are legitimate grievances, but the root of the problem was what the perpretrator did and who encouraged him to do it.

I am obviously not excusing or equivocating what happened. I specifically said that the alt-right/white nationalists took it too far and that I do not agree with any violence.

Several people on here said they didn't know who AntiFa was, so I was spelling it out for them. They were not the ones with the signs of love.

[Play Angry]

Protesters topple confederate statue in Durham, NC. See the tweet video.

Thoughts? Comments?

Not the right way to go about statue removal. Probably a crime and, if so, they should be punished.

Predictable that some idiots would use public sentiment on their side as free license to do stupid stuff.

[SHOCKvalue]

They should have never been allowed in Charlottesville and I hope they don't ever get another permit to march.

Wrong.

You know why, right? The ACLU knows why.

Personally, it wouldn't hurt my feelings if the KKK, Neo-Nazis, Antifa, and the Black Panthers all had a log chipper party and threw each other in, but until the very fabric of this country changes for the worst, they have a right to peacefully assemble and say whatever the heck they want, short of obvious legal limitations.

The national narrative right now about this weekend's events are chilling in the context of the above. So many people on the left throw around the fascist label at Trump, when in fact the words and wishes they utter fit the definition of the word perfectly.

[shockmonster]

Don't disagree with you, what we had here was a bunch of people who were looking for trouble and found it.

However, for the alt-right to start to become paid professional agitators smacks of the old Black Panther Party. As a result, I do not believe there should be any sort of equivocation.

They should have never been allowed in Charlottesville and I hope they don't ever get another permit to march.

The ACLU went to court and argued in Skokie Ill. In the 70s that the Nazi's should have the right to come in from OUTSIDE the community and have a parade/demonstration in a community (made up of a large majority of Jewish people). The NAZIs were there to provoke and the ACLU and courts said that the community should have no veto power of the demonstration.

[shocka khan]

Wrong.

You know why, right? The ACLU knows why.

Personally, it wouldn't hurt my feelings if the KKK, Neo-Nazis, Antifa, and the Black Panthers all had a log chipper party and threw each other in, but until the very fabric of this country changes for the worst, they have a right to peacefully assemble and say whatever the heck they want, short of obvious legal limitations.

The national narrative right now about this weekend's events are chilling in the context of the above. So many people on the left throw around the fascist label at Trump, when in fact the words and wishes they utter fit the definition of the word perfectly.

1) I voted for Trump. I probably would not do it now, but I did vote for him. Having said that, I am concerned about his embrace of dictators such as Dueterte in the Phillipines.
2) I believe in freedom of speech, but disagree with anyone's right to yell 'fire' in a crowded theater just for the hell of it. Same with the people who were looking for trouble in Charlotteville this weekend on both sides.
If Canada, Europe and Australia can put sensible limits on what we might lump into the worst of "free speech", then we should be able to do it, too.
3) I don't always agree with the ACLU. I back probably 50 percent of their causes, but reject the other 50%. The ACLU does exist to defend our constitutional rights. I may only agree with about half the stuff they do, but
I believe they are a necessary evil.

[ShockTalk]

Not the right way to go about statue removal. Probably a crime and, if so, they should be punished.

Predictable that some idiots would use public sentiment on their side as free license to do stupid stuff.

While I abhor the white supremacist groups, they have not cornered the market in idiocy. Not probably a crime, it is a crime to destroy public property and the value that could be put on that statue (whether you dislike it or not) would be fairly high.

Public sentiment or not, this cannot be tolerated. Such displays will only lead to more of the same and cause more likelihood of radical response. We cannot have groups like this throwing gas on the fire.

[pinstripers]

ACLU = necessary evil..............well said

[shockmonster]

1) I voted for Trump. I probably would not do it now, but I did vote for him. Having said that, I am concerned about his embrace of dictators such as Dueterte in the Phillipines.
2) I believe in freedom of speech, but disagree with anyone's right to yell 'fire' in a crowded theater just for the hell of it. Same with the people who were looking for trouble in Charlotteville this weekend on both sides.
If Canada, Europe and Australia can put sensible limits on what we might lump into the worst of "free speech", then we should be able to do it, too.
3) I don't always agree with the ACLU. I back probably 50 percent of their causes, but reject the other 50%. The ACLU does exist to defend our constitutional rights. I may only agree with about half the stuff they do, but
I believe they are a necessary evil.

That's impossible. If you support the ACLU, you support the entire enchilada. They are pretty consistent. They are anti-establishment, anti-government, anti-Christian, and anti-majority. It used to be that our shared values decided what communities would allow. The ACLU ended that.

[Aargh]

When David Duke shows up with 100 white guys marching through a Southern town at night carrying torches...that is absolutely begging for a confrontation.

That's what the Klan used to do back in the days when the march sometimes ended up with a lynching. The symbolism of carrying torches at night is one of the most provocative things that can be done in the South.

We have a right to expression, but we need to remember that the exercise of our rights can have consequences. In this case the consequences were predictable. If a peaceful protest was the intention, then this was the most poorly planned protest in history.

[SHOCKvalue]

We have a right to expression, but we need to remember that the exercise of our rights can have consequences. In this case the consequences were predictable. If a peaceful protest was the intention, then this was the most poorly planned protest in history.

No. Another one of the dumbass national narratives going on right now. You can't justify physical violence simply because another person's words hurt your damn feelings or personal inclinations. Not now; not ever.