Charlottesville riots

[jdshock]

Also for the record, I personally wish that hate speech was NOT protected by the 1st amendment. I wish Nazis did not have the right to assemble and demonstrate in public venues. That's just my opinion and wanted to throw that out there.

It's incredibly important that groups like the KKK have the right to peaceably assemble. If we can determine that groups like the KKK should not be allowed to access the First Amendment because their opinions are morally repugnant, you deal a major blow to many protected organizations. What happens if the majority of Americans believe Christianity is morally repugnant because they espouse a belief that non-Christians will suffer eternal damnation? Maybe even more on point, what happens when the majority of Americans believe interracial marriage is morally repugnant, so we disallow protesters on the issue?

In a perfect world, these groups wouldn't exist. Unfortunately, they do. Whether they do or do not exist, the First Amendment is crucial to our society, and we should rarely accept even minute attempts to restrict it.

[Awesome Sauce Malone]

I am opposed to abortion. Abortion isn't in the constitution. Slavery is. Also I am pro-life. I have no idea what your statement is trying to prove or accomplish.

Nazis were marching in our streets. Why is who threw the first punch important to you? Both sides were armed and gunning for confrontation. If an Antifa commie tbrew the first punch does that excuse the Nazis somehow?

These two posts perfectly explain the absurdity of what you people on this forum.

Theres a severe case of "whataboutism" going on here. There were literally people marching through the streets of an American city proudly waving Nazi Flags, Confederate Battle flags and yet the only thing most of you can say is "well what about"

Remember kids. Nothing says MAGA like waving a nazi flag yelling Seig Heil because some piece of **** turned his back on his country so he didnt have to get his hands dirty working in the field or getting his own tea is having his statue removed.

"oh oh Antifa professional organizaton' shut the **** up. Most of you sound just like this piece of **** in this video https://www.facebook.com/vicenews/vi...t4&pnref=story

[Rocky Mountain Shock]

So I would say that leftists that spew propaganda (AntiFa) does do this. Not all leftists. My wife's high school friend posted on Facebook, "shame on all who voted for Trump. You know this is what you wanted."

"Rightists" that spew propaganda also do this. But not all rightists. And that's my point.

We cannot continue to separate ourselves and others into sides defined only by extremists. I know people who have said the same as your wife's high school friend. I also know conservatives who think anyone who votes for a democrat is a socialist. It's stupid. Smart people like you and me cannot let ourselves fall into this trap.

[Rocky Mountain Shock]

That's impossible. If you support the ACLU, you support the entire enchilada. They are pretty consistent. They are anti-establishment, anti-government, anti-Christian, and anti-majority. It used to be that our shared values decided what communities would allow. The ACLU ended that.

I really have never understood why conservatives despise the ACLU. An "anti-establishment", "anti-government" organization that fights for constitutional rights and against injustice seems like something straight out of the conservative ideals. One of the paradoxes of conservatism that just makes little sense.

[ShockerPhi]

It's incredibly important that groups like the KKK have the right to peaceably assemble. If we can determine that groups like the KKK should not be allowed to access the First Amendment because their opinions are morally repugnant, you deal a major blow to many protected organizations. What happens if the majority of Americans believe Christianity is morally repugnant because they espouse a belief that non-Christians will suffer eternal damnation? Maybe even more on point, what happens when the majority of Americans believe interracial marriage is morally repugnant, so we disallow protesters on the issue?

In a perfect world, these groups wouldn't exist. Unfortunately, they do. Whether they do or do not exist, the First Amendment is crucial to our society, and we should rarely accept even minute attempts to restrict it.

Obviously it's very difficult to draw a line in the sand on what is moral and what is not. It's completely up to the eye of the beholder. You're right, it's tricky. But I'm not so sure it would be such a slippery slope as you suggest. In Germany and other European countries, it's illegal for any sort of Nazi symbolism or propaganda. I don't think they're at risk of persecuting Christians or anything else like that anytime soon.

Like I said, though, it's just my opinion. It's not something I think we should fight for, but just an idea for discussion. I accept and respect the 1st amendment as is.

[Play Angry]

That's the thing though - the First Amendment isn't about adjudicating morality.

[SB Shock]

Obviously it's very difficult to draw a line in the sand on what is moral and what is not.

Only if your world view is moral relativism.

But I'm not so sure it would be such a slippery slope as you suggest. In Germany and other European countries, it's illegal for any sort of Nazi symbolism or propaganda. I don't think they're at risk of persecuting Christians or anything else like that anytime soon.

In some European countries (France is one of them) it is illegal for pro-life to speak out against abortion. You now see termination rates for pregancies for Down syndrome to be almost 100% in Iceland, 98% in Denmark and 77% in France.

In Canada - they control what can and cannot be taught from the pulpit. Church of England is in a battle where the secular forces want LGBT lifestyle to be declared "not a sin".

[jdshock]

Obviously it's very difficult to draw a line in the sand on what is moral and what is not. It's completely up to the eye of the beholder. You're right, it's tricky. But I'm not so sure it would be such a slippery slope as you suggest. In Germany and other European countries, it's illegal for any sort of Nazi symbolism or propaganda. I don't think they're at risk of persecuting Christians or anything else like that anytime soon.

Like I said, though, it's just my opinion. It's not something I think we should fight for, but just an idea for discussion. I accept and respect the 1st amendment as is.

I get that you're not really debating anyone on this point, and I get that you're not out here proposing we tear up the Bill of Rights. I think we've both said our piece on the subject, so I'll just add one additional (hopefully humorous) thought:

If nazi symbols weren't protected by the First Amendment, how would I know who to avoid??

[wufan]

"Rightists" that spew propaganda also do this. But not all rightists. And that's my point.

We cannot continue to separate ourselves and others into sides defined only by extremists. I know people who have said the same as your wife's high school friend. I also know conservatives who think anyone who votes for a democrat is a socialist. It's stupid. Smart people like you and me cannot let ourselves fall into this trap.

Totally agree.

[wufan]

Bad free speech should be defeated with good free speech. Bad free speech should not be banned; rather, violence should be.

Ive heard the argument, not mainstream even by far leftists views, but the argument is that if your speech causes a negative emotional response, then it is stress induced violence, and therefore it should be banned, since speech that incites violence (and violence itself) are banned. That will get you into a slippery logic slope, and it needs to be avoided. Free speech needs to be permitted, even if it against our strongest moral values.

[ShockerPhi]

In some European countries (France is one of them) it is illegal for pro-life to speak out against abortion. You now see termination rates for pregancies for Down syndrome to be almost 100% in Iceland, 98% in Denmark and 77% in France.

This part is a little misleading. In the case of France, you can speak out against abortion, as long as you make it clear what your stance is (whatever the hell that means. Seems like a weird law). You just can't obstruct someone from getting an abortion. But I see your point that it might be getting close to the point of that.

I dunno.... I'm just glad I'm not a law maker. Can't please everyone and there is no perfect solution.

[BOBB]

These two posts perfectly explain the absurdity of what you people on this forum.

Theres a severe case of "whataboutism" going on here. There were literally people marching through the streets of an American city proudly waving Nazi Flags, Confederate Battle flags and yet the only thing most of you can say is "well what about"

Remember kids. Nothing says MAGA like waving a nazi flag yelling Seig Heil because some piece of **** turned his back on his country so he didnt have to get his hands dirty working in the field or getting his own tea is having his statue removed.

"oh oh Antifa professional organizaton' shut the **** up. Most of you sound just like this piece of **** in this video https://www.facebook.com/vicenews/vi...t4&pnref=story

You either misread my post or I didn't state clearly. I believe we are of similar minds on this.

[pinstripers]

Nazis were marching in our streets. Why is who threw the first punch important to you? Both sides were armed and gunning for confrontation. If an Antifa commie tbrew the first punch does that excuse the Nazis somehow?

No. But, damn, it's really important.

[Jamar Howard 4 President]

Obviously not. But BLM chanting kill cops" makes them a hate group, I think.

All Nazis show hatred for non-whites.
Not all BLM folks chant about killing cops.

We can argue whether the BLM movement has too many bad apples as a % of the whole, but killing cops is far from an essential part of that movement. Hating non-whites is essential to being a Nazi.

[pinstripers]

All Nazis show hatred for non-whites.
Not all BLM folks chant about killing cops.

We can argue whether the BLM movement has too many bad apples as a % of the whole, but killing cops is far from an essential part of that movement. Hating non-whites is essential to being a Nazi.

You are allowed your opinion, but don't pretend you are a mindreader.