Charlottesville riots

[Walker]

I'm not familiar with those groups. Never heard of them until they popped up in this thread.

If we're comparing them to Nazis, what groups or ethnicities do they want to exterminate?

I'd say #1 on BLM, ANTIFA and the Anarcho-Communists or any other Soros funded hate groups, exterminate list would be white males in general. If you remember Dallas last year, we had 5 police officers murdered by BLM extremist. We had a Republican Senator shot a few months back by a left-wing nut job who's ideology aligns with ANTIFA and extreme left. Does he have have a membership card saying he's a member? Probably not, but the organization is not exactly the Rotary Club though is it?

Then followed by white males on their hit lists, I'd say all blacks, latinos females, gays, Trump supporters who engage in wrongthink or express different opinions are in their cross-hairs too. So yeah, I'd say they're some scumbags just as detestable as extreme right-wing hate groups.

[ShockerPrez]

I would be fine with Antifa and Unite the right squaring off in a walled off field hunger games style. And then just forget about them. They can fight over their bullshit in solitude.

[SB Shock]

I'm not familiar with those groups. Never heard of them until they popped up in this thread.

If we're comparing them to Nazis, what groups or ethnicities do they want to exterminate?

Sure u heard of them if you follow any world news. You saw some of their work in Germany this year.They love Stalin/Castro etc. They are equal opportunity in who they attack and want to do violence against anybody in authority. They are world wide organization. Anywhere u see left violence/destruction they are involved in it (really leading it). They have been branded a terrorist organization by New Jersey DHS.

[SB Shock]

I would be fine with Antifa and Unite the right squaring off in a walled off field hunger games style. And then just forget about them. They can fight over their bullshit in solitude.

Well you are getting it - but they are not going to do it in solitude. The alt-right and alt-left are at war with each other and you are seeing that violence played out on our nations streets.

[Aargh]

Oh, BLM = Black Lives Matter. I'm familiar with them and they do have some nutjobs in that group.

I kept thinking Bureau of Land Management, which has had plenty of run-ins with groups identifying themselves as militia groups, but that wasn't making any sense in the context of Charlottesville.

[Walker]

I agree that removing statues is in no way "erasing history". It's just something for white supremacists to cry over and say they're having their "heritage" taken away from them. Boo hoo.

Can't believe we're still dealing with Nazi's here in 2017... IN THE UNITED STATES. We protect free speech here, which is great, but it's frightening to me that it seems like these groups are less afraid to show their faces in public these days. They're starting to carve a niche for themselves into society. We can't let this ideology feel welcome.

Not everybody wanting to preserve these Confederate Monuments are White Supremacists. When these confederate monuments are being torn down, that is an attack on their culture and heritage. You can justify it and say they represent racism and oppression, but what about when the social justice warriors start to go after Washington monument and Jefferson Memorial because in their eyes, those places represent racism too since Washington and Jefferson were slave owners as well? Are you okay with that? I'm not.

I'm not trying to change anybody's mind about what confederate monuments mean, but I think we Kansans and non-southerners tend to have a rather unfair, snobbish misconceptions about Southerners. When I was in the Army, I went throughout most of the South. As a young guy, I admit, it shocked me the first time going through Georgia, Tennessee and North Carolina seeing Rebel Flags on houses and statues of General Lee, etc. But as time went on, I saw that the overwhelming majority of the people I came to know weren't racist at all. They were good, loving people that loved their heritage and culture.

The majority of the people wanting to preserve the monuments are the good people, but they unfairly get lumped in with the white supremacists. You can say boo hoo all you want, but they will use the same arguments to tear down monuments of our founding fathers, and they will try to lump us in with white supremacists as well for wanting to preserve monuments of people who were slave owners.

[ShockCrazy]

They were good, loving people that loved their heritage and culture.

They need to be re-educated about their heritage and culture then. Germans don't celebrate the heritage of Nazis, South Africans don't celebrate the leaders of apartheid. They don't accept it nor should we. The celebration and pride for a culture that rebelled against it's country, led to the death of a million, and fought for slavery needs to stop. And while I don't think we necessarily need to remove monuments of founding fathers, we also need to stop circle jerking about them and the constitution as if they were some nobler breed of human. They had flaws, they had slaves, and they put into the constitution one of the most reprehensible pieces of legislation our nation has ever owned.

[Play Angry]

There seems to be a frustrating disconnect here.

Thousands of out-of-state white supremacist activists flocked to Charlottesville to protest the removal of a statue and renaming of a park by local, democratically elected city leaders. They came prepared for and committed to violent confrontation, and it played out exactly that way. These were not peaceful Ghandi followers performing a sit in who were malevolently attacked without fault of their own. They chose violence as an avenue to seek to deny government action at the local level, deemed constitutional under the Commonwealth of Virginia without challenge in courts. One of the members of this group committed an act of domestic terrorism which resulted in the murder of a young woman and the hospitalization of 19 others.

These people absolutely are racist and scum. Of course, not everyone who hangs a confederate flag on their pickup or supports statues like this one of Robert E. Lee is a white supremacist - most are not, obviously. These ones were, however.

The Washington Monument and Jefferson Memorial are in no danger of removal. These were not nefarious, overreaching federal agencies taking unwanted action on an electorate without consent. Quite the opposite - here, you have some apologists speaking out against the enforcement of state and local rights in defense of those from outside that electorate who chose violent confrontation as their method of choice to deter these actions.

There is no need for "But, the left doesn't condemn...." or "Hey, not everyone that likes Robert E. Lee is racist!" These people claimed that they are acting to fulfill the President's wishes. Unfair to the President? Yep, almost certainly. Nonetheless, what an easy opportunity to follow in Reagan's footsteps and call these people out for what they are, and make clear that they have no welcome in our club. It was an opportunity missed - as usual, VP Pence's statements in his interview yesterday evening were what the President should have said and will pretend that he did say in reflective moments on the matter.

There needs to be no home for Richard Spencer or David Duke in the Republican Party or conservative movement. Let the left worry about excluding their own fringe - its inclusion is ultimately more destructive than beneficial.

[jdshock]

fought for slavery

Typically when this gets said, people will respond with "well, that's not really what the war was about."

I want to preempt this with one of the best articles I've read on the subject. The idea that it was about anything other than slavery was a re-write of history. http://78ohio.org/wp-content/uploads...al-version.pdf

[ShockCrazy]

Typically when this gets said, people will respond with "well, that's not really what the war was about."

I want to preempt this with one of the best articles I've read on the subject. The idea that it was about anything other than slavery was a re-write of history. http://78ohio.org/wp-content/uploads...al-version.pdf

I've never seen that before, good article, although a bit nauseating seeing the actual quotes of both political and Christian leaders of the south.

[wu_shizzle]

Always be skeptical of mobs. The supposed "White Nationalist" leader began his org just this year, and formally was an Occupy leader and Obama supporter: https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-h.../jason-kessler

[Walker]

They need to be re-educated about their heritage and culture then. Germans don't celebrate the heritage of Nazis, South Africans don't celebrate the leaders of apartheid. They don't accept it nor should we. The celebration and pride for a culture that rebelled against it's country, led to the death of a million, and fought for slavery needs to stop. And while I don't think we necessarily need to remove monuments of founding fathers, we also need to stop circle jerking about them and the constitution as if they were some nobler breed of human. They had flaws, they had slaves, and they put into the constitution one of the most reprehensible pieces of legislation our nation has ever owned.

Re-education? So should they have re-education camps with a room 101 where O'Brien can use various techniques on the most stubborn of learners?

You don't think the South and whole country for that matter already get daily doses of "Your ancestors, culture and heritage suck and are responsible for the world's problems" in schools and media on a daily basis already?

I'd say the ideas of our founders and Constitution are nobler than any other system despite their flaws. Every nation on Earth has flaws, and histories with blemishes. Some engaging in genocide and slavery as we speak within the Middle East and Africa, but countries in the West are the only ones to be held responsible for all of eternity?

[Aargh]

When David Duke shows up and you have 100 white guys marching through a town in Virginia at night carrying torches....

...that's been done before - for a lot of years. The difference is that years ago those guys were wearing hoods over their heads.

Can anyone think of a better way to beg for a confrontation?

[ShockCrazy]

Always be skeptical of mobs. The supposed "White Nationalist" leader began his org just this year, and formally was an Occupy leader and Obama supporter: https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-h.../jason-kessler

So we are gonna go full tinfoil and say he was a plant? Or we can apply Occam's razor and think logically that these "rumors" which is all that mentions were just made up by people within the org who don't like him.

[ShockCrazy]

Re-education? So should they have re-education camps with a room 101 where O'Brien can use various techniques on the most stubborn of learners?

You don't think the South and whole country for that matter already get daily doses of "Your ancestors, culture and heritage suck and are responsible for the world's problems" in schools and media on a daily basis already?

I'd say the ideas of our founders and Constitution are nobler than any other system despite their flaws. Every nation on Earth has flaws, and histories with blemishes. Some engaging in genocide and slavery as we speak within the Middle East and Africa, but countries in the West are the only ones to be held responsible for all of eternity?

So they know it and still support the use of the flag and other monuments... That leaves us with one option you want to ignore.

I absolutely abhor the argument you use at the end and it's reprehensible because it denies accountability in the name of others failings. We aren't the only ones beholden to our mistakes. But we can't change how other countries behave, we can control how we behave and what we find acceptable.