Debate about "safe-places" at KU

[jdshock]

Like it or not, the face of liberalism/progressivism/etc, for those that represent such in the younger generations, are these borderline insane (literally) SJW types. Whether or not you guys are comfortable with that reality is immaterial. Perception beats reality, every time.

I think there is a small percentage of young adults that are working through their ideas of what it means to be liberal, the appropriate way to respond to racism, etc., and those individuals are sometimes doing more harm than good. Half of them are going to end up conservatives down the road anyway. College is frequently a time that people experiment with their political ideals.

I don't think your assessment is accurate at all of what the face of progressivism is for young folks. Bernie Sanders was hugely popular with younger generations. He was and is a huge advocate of women's and minorities' rights. Activism similar to his may be the face of the movement for young people, and there is a small group of young people that appear to be trying to model that activism, and they're doing so in a way that makes me unhappy. I don't for a second believe that the type of thing that happened at KU is the "face" of progressivism. I'm certain I'm more in touch with the progressive movement than many, so I'm not just saying what I am and am not comfortable with.

[Cdizzle]

I'm certain I'm more in touch with the progressive movement than many

A common belief held by anyone who thinks they are 'in touch' with the 'progressive' movement.

[jdshock]

A common belief held by anyone who thinks they are 'in touch' with the 'progressive' movement.

It's apparently also a common belief among conservatives on shockernet...

[RoyalShock]

I don't for a second believe that the type of thing that happened at KU is the "face" of progressivism. I'm certain I'm more in touch with the progressive movement than many, so I'm not just saying what I am and am not comfortable with.

The thing is, when you're "inside", you don't see it from the outside the way outsiders do. It's no different than how conservatives are viewed by many on the left as mean, racist, war-mongering Bible-thumpers who want to rob grandma of her Social Security so she has to eat dog food for dinner. Only now we have video of the radical young progressives in action, not just the rants and allegations of the political class.

Just like the left and most media get to define the narrative of what the face of conservatism is, the right get to define the face of progressivism. Yes, it's shallow-minded and many of us (on both sides) know better and don't truly think those things. But that's not true for the masses.

[MoValley John]

I think there is a small percentage of young adults that are working through their ideas of what it means to be liberal, the appropriate way to respond to racism, etc., and those individuals are sometimes doing more harm than good. Half of them are going to end up conservatives down the road anyway. College is frequently a time that people experiment with their political ideals.

I don't think your assessment is accurate at all of what the face of progressivism is for young folks. Bernie Sanders was hugely popular with younger generations. He was and is a huge advocate of women's and minorities' rights. Activism similar to his may be the face of the movement for young people, and there is a small group of young people that appear to be trying to model that activism, and they're doing so in a way that makes me unhappy. I don't for a second believe that the type of thing that happened at KU is the "face" of progressivism. I'm certain I'm more in touch with the progressive movement than many, so I'm not just saying what I am and am not comfortable with.

The natural mindset of liberalism is change. It is a paradox because while they aspire for peace and happiness in change, change is fought for with hostility. If liberals didn't march, protest vandalize, the status quo would move on without regard. This goes beyond the college campus.

Also, liberalism relies on freedom of speech and expression, their right to assemble, just about all of their rights to affect change. The liberal movement depends on conservatives that stand behind these rights. The problem is, when liberals affect the change they want, they want the discussion shut down and no longer want conservatives to enjoy their rights to speech, assembly and more. They do this with protests, with institutionalized political correctness and intimidation. It's not just the young college student doing it, either.

Not all liberals protest or are activists in their beliefs, but every one I've met is sympathetic to those that are. Moderates pick and choose their liberal beliefs, but true liberals, or how they now like to be called progressives, sympathise and endorse nearly all actions of liberal activists groups.

And Bernie was very popular with the middle aged working class. While I didn't agree with him much, I liked Bernie and if it were Bernie vs. Trump, I would vote Bernie. Now I have to vote for Montgomery Brewster.

[Kung Wu]

Now I have to vote for Montgomery Brewster.

Here's what you're missing out on by not voting for Trump ... you can piss off a lot of family members you don't like anyways! Example: Your wife's smarmy liberal uncle is getting drunk with the family over Thanksgiving weekend. He's annoying everyone going on and on with kookoo leftist propoganda. Instead of arguing with him, you just let him know you voted for Trump! Boom!! Even if you disagree with this or that about Trump, you can go on and on about how awesome he is! Really stick it to old Uncle Joe! Even tell the old bastard you voted for Trump just because of him [your uncle]! Have some fun, vote for Trump!

[jdshock]

The natural mindset of liberalism is change. It is a paradox because while they aspire for peace and happiness in change, change is fought for with hostility. If liberals didn't march, protest vandalize, the status quo would move on without regard. This goes beyond the college campus.

Also, liberalism relies on freedom of speech and expression, their right to assemble, just about all of their rights to affect change. The liberal movement depends on conservatives that stand behind these rights. The problem is, when liberals affect the change they want, they want the discussion shut down and no longer want conservatives to enjoy their rights to speech, assembly and more. They do this with protests, with institutionalized political correctness and intimidation. It's not just the young college student doing it, either.

Not all liberals protest or are activists in their beliefs, but every one I've met is sympathetic to those that are. Moderates pick and choose their liberal beliefs, but true liberals, or how they now like to be called progressives, sympathise and endorse nearly all actions of liberal activists groups.

I'm not sure I comprehend a lot of this. I can be sympathetic to the BLM protests and Colin Kaepernick's efforts because of free speech issues. Non-violent protests are a foundational aspect of our freedoms in the United States. I'm all for the KKK also having free speech rights. I truly, honestly don't know very many liberals that would support limiting free speech rights. There's very clearly a growing number of young liberals that are acting in a way that does not further tolerance. And, sure, I'm sympathetic to them. I believe they also want to see more tolerance and they want to see less racism, sexism, and hatred in general in society. I just think they're screwing up their strategy and they haven't thought stuff through yet. I really hate that they're making liberals look silly.

I don't know if people here think stuff like the Kim Davis incident is a free speech issue so therefore all liberals want to restrict speech, or what. To most liberals, that's very clearly not a first amendment issue.

And Bernie was very popular with the middle aged working class. While I didn't agree with him much, I liked Bernie and if it were Bernie vs. Trump, I would vote Bernie. Now I have to vote for Montgomery Brewster.

I don't know about that. Bernie was dominating among young people and people making less than 50k.

[MoValley John]

Here's what you're missing out on by not voting for Trump ... you can piss off a lot of family members you don't like anyways! Example: Your wife's smarmy liberal uncle is getting drunk with the family over Thanksgiving weekend. He's annoying everyone going on and on with kookoo leftist propoganda. Instead of arguing with him, you just let him know you voted for Trump! Boom!! Even if you disagree with this or that about Trump, you can go on and on about how awesome he is! Really stick it to old Uncle Joe! Even tell the old bastard you voted for Trump just because of him [your uncle]! Have some fun, vote for Trump!

But I could vote for Monty and tell my alcoholic, pedophilia raged, unemployed, public pocket pool playing wife's Uncle Joe I voted for Trump. I keep my vote, but piss him off at the same time.

For the record, my wife's sister is a bat **** crazy, feminist liberal. She's 46 years old, still boycotts Hobby Lobby and Chick fil a, attends BLM protests, everything. She is a big Hillary supporter and gay rights advocate. I asked her how she wouldn't use Mozilla if Brendan Eich didn't resign, but could support Hillary even though she was a sponsor of DOMA, her head exploded, and has yet been able to answer the question.

[MoValley John]

I'm not sure I comprehend a lot of this. I can be sympathetic to the BLM protests and Colin Kaepernick's efforts because of free speech issues. Non-violent protests are a foundational aspect of our freedoms in the United States. I'm all for the KKK also having free speech rights. I truly, honestly don't know very many liberals that would support limiting free speech rights. There's very clearly a growing number of young liberals that are acting in a way that does not further tolerance. And, sure, I'm sympathetic to them. I believe they also want to see more tolerance and they want to see less racism, sexism, and hatred in general in society. I just think they're screwing up their strategy and they haven't thought stuff through yet. I really hate that they're making liberals look silly.

I don't know if people here think stuff like the Kim Davis incident is a free speech issue so therefore all liberals want to restrict speech, or what. To most liberals, that's very clearly not a first amendment issue.



I don't know about that. Bernie was dominating among young people and people making less than 50k.

Kim Davis is not what Im referring to, Im referring to people stealing hats from Trump supporters claiming a Trump hat that says "Make America Great Again" is hate speeak.

https://youtu.be/konY_isZOLo

This is the stupid, deny conservatives their rights, crap that liberals do. It's intimidation, it's denying rights of free speech, it's wrong. My 46 yeR-old sister in law does this stuff. She's not a college student.

Many people making less than 50k are not young, they are working class.

[jdshock]

Kim Davis is not what Im referring to, Im referring to people stealing hats from Trump supporters claiming a Trump hat that says "Make America Great Again" is hate speeak.

https://youtu.be/konY_isZOLo

This is the stupid, deny conservatives their rights, crap that liberals do. It's intimidation, it's denying rights of free speech, it's wrong. My 46 yeR-old sister in law does this stuff. She's not a college student.

My argument is that the vast majority of these types of liberals are college aged. Not every single one of them, so I'm sorry you have to deal with an adult who does that, but that doesn't really refute my point. The people in the video are the age I'm talking about. And yeah, you can find a bunch of videos of people doing that kind of stuff. It's infuriating, but even if you see 300 videos because 300 different liberals thought it was funny, that's such a tiny percentage of the overall group. And I'm sure places like Fox and Drudge pick up these videos, but never share a video of a conservative and a liberal having an informed discussion. Because who would ever watch that? These people are a tiny, tiny subset of liberals.

Many people making less than 50k are not young, they are working class.

You're just twisting your words to make it look like you were right the whole time. Look at the charts. 30-44 age range is neck and neck, with Clinton winning a bit. 45-64 Clinton is winning handily. 18-29 Bernie is dominating, which is exactly what I said when you responded that I didn't know what I was talking about, acting like the model Bernie voter was middle aged and working class. I sure hope that 18-29 isn't middle aged for me. 50k and under is the other stat. Lots of people in that grouping are in the $0/year category. I just posted the first article I could find. I just don't know how you can argue that young people didn't support Bernie.

[Aargh]

you are going to find assholes in any group involved in any movement. Doesn't matterr whether it's liberal, conservative, moderate, or even fans of the athletic team you cheer for and support.

The assholes tend to be the ones most likely to make noise and create problems, because they are, you know, assholes.

That doesn't invalidate their position, the movement they are involved with, or the athletic team they support. We have to be careful not to judge the entire group or the entire ideology by the actions of the assholes. If we do that, we'd have to invalidate everything.

It can be tempting to judge "liberals" or "liberal movements" because of the actions of TrigglePuss or whatever her nemae is, but that would be wrong. Just like it would be wrong to judge conservatives by the antics of Sam Brownback or Rush Limbaugh.

People like her do tremendous damage to the cause they are backing. Credibility is lost. The population is polarized against her, and by extension, the cause she's supporting.

[MoValley John]

My argument is that the vast majority of these types of liberals are college aged. Not every single one of them, so I'm sorry you have to deal with an adult who does that, but that doesn't really refute my point. The people in the video are the age I'm talking about. And yeah, you can find a bunch of videos of people doing that kind of stuff. It's infuriating, but even if you see 300 videos because 300 different liberals thought it was funny, that's such a tiny percentage of the overall group. And I'm sure places like Fox and Drudge pick up these videos, but never share a video of a conservative and a liberal having an informed discussion. Because who would ever watch that? These people are a tiny, tiny subset of liberals.



You're just twisting your words to make it look like you were right the whole time. Look at the charts. 30-44 age range is neck and neck, with Clinton winning a bit. 45-64 Clinton is winning handily. 18-29 Bernie is dominating, which is exactly what I said when you responded that I didn't know what I was talking about, acting like the model Bernie voter was middle aged and working class. I sure hope that 18-29 isn't middle aged for me. 50k and under is the other stat. Lots of people in that grouping are in the $0/year category. I just posted the first article I could find. I just don't know how you can argue that young people didn't support Bernie.

I didn't twist anything. I said, verbatim, "And Bernie was very popular with the middle aged working class. While I didn't agree with him much, I liked Bernie and if it were Bernie vs. Trump, I would vote Bernie. Now I have to vote for Montgomery Brewster."

You replied, verbatim, "I don't know about that. Bernie was dominating among young people and people making less than 50k."

Your link showed that Bernie was doing fine with the middle aged demo. (45-62). Better eith those closer to 45 and not as good with those closer to 62. Here is a link to what is the middle aged demo. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23340711

So I didn't twist a word you said, Bernie did well with more than just college students. I don't disagree that he dominated with college students, but he also did well up into the middle aged demo.

I guess the only disagreement would or could be in how each person interprets exactly what doing well is.

[MoValley John]

I don't think it was the college aged, young liberals that displayed the naked Trump sculptures. Furthermore, almost every liberal, from every demo, thought it was funny until it was pointed out that they were body shaming and liberals are leading the effort to end body shaming. Kind of, em, hypocritical.

[ShockingButTrue]

Kim Davis is not what Im referring to, Im referring to people stealing hats from Trump supporters claiming a Trump hat that says "Make America Great Again" is hate speeak.

https://youtu.be/konY_isZOLo

This is the stupid, deny conservatives their rights, crap that liberals do. It's intimidation, it's denying rights of free speech, it's wrong. My 46 yeR-old sister in law does this stuff. She's not a college student.

Many people making less than 50k are not young, they are working class.

Hear hear. I agree. Hillary sure isn't a teen-ager. And apparently she's endowed with that moral-activating super power called telepathy, because she can tell who is full of hate and who isn't.

But there's no telepathy needed to see just who is doing the provoking in this -ahem- political season.

[jdshock]

I didn't twist anything. I said, verbatim, "And Bernie was very popular with the middle aged working class. While I didn't agree with him much, I liked Bernie and if it were Bernie vs. Trump, I would vote Bernie. Now I have to vote for Montgomery Brewster."

You replied, verbatim, "I don't know about that. Bernie was dominating among young people and people making less than 50k."

Your link showed that Bernie was doing fine with the middle aged demo. (45-62). Better eith those closer to 45 and not as good with those closer to 62. Here is a link to what is the middle aged demo. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23340711

So I didn't twist a word you said, Bernie did well with more than just college students. I don't disagree that he dominated with college students, but he also did well up into the middle aged demo.

I guess the only disagreement would or could be in how each person interprets exactly what doing well is.

We'll have to agree to disagree. I don't believe a dead heat in that age group implies it was his key demographic.

To me, his best support was young people and his popularity was, essentially, reversely correlated with age.

It's all really off topic, though. The point was that Bernie was popular with young people (do you disagree with that?) so his activism is the model they attempt to emulate, even if they do so poorly. I guess it doesn't matter since you can point to a couple of examples of older liberals being dumb, so obviously we're all hypocrites interested in restricting as many freedoms as possible.