Trump

[WuDrWu]

When Ivanka is President those on the left are going to realize they were trolled by Donald for more than 8 years.

I have to give you credit jdshock I really thought you wouldn't pass up the Wisconsin lie.

What I don't think most people (on either side of the argument) get is all he's doing is trying to tilt the windmill in the other direction for 4-8 years. Hell, I don't believe any politician. But I'll listen to mine before I listen to Angela Merkel. And if you listen to Angela Merkel, then I hope you understand at least why Hillary lost. A great number of Americans want things a little more tilted to Americans for awhile. It's not the end of NATO, it's not a return to slavery...….it's about the countries living off the American teat doing more than they have been and then not continuing to make special laws and special welfare packages for selected groups of so-called disenfranchised. I realize President Trump can't take the US out of NATO and so does he. But if you don't think every other NATO country doesn't realize we carry all the water, then I guess we can't discuss common sense. He'll get it tilted. He usually does.

[jdshock]

I think you're generally right here, but I don't think it's responsive. My point is that I think lying to Americans about what happened is propaganda, and I think it's nonsense. Telling us that he is considering the end of NATO is one thing. Telling us other countries upped contribution percentages is totally different. One is a negotiating tactic. The other can just be proven wrong with objective information. Just like the Wisconsin thing (hey, you mentioned it first, so it's fair game).

He can lie to us, he can contradict himself, he can do all of these things and yet he can still be praised as having a remarkable press conference with zero nonsense. It's propaganda, and frequently it's just verifiably false.

[WuDrWu]

And yes he's an arrogant ass. I think you have to be. Obama was, so is Trump.

NY Senator Kristen Gillibrand called ICE a form of terrorism. Just curious if you're equally offended by that comment. It's a lie. She knows it's a lie, and she's telling the lie to push her agenda.

The difference being is she's insulting and lying about good honest hard working Americans that are charged with protecting our country.

[jdshock]

I don't know that it's a "lie." It's like saying the Charlottesville people were good people. In my opinion, they're both probably not true. They're both statements that probably hurt the individual politician's popularity. They're subjective statements, though. Even something like "99% of the folks in the KKK are good people." That's just a subjective value statement, even if we all agree on it.

These kinds of statements are not the verifiably false, 2+2=5, type of lie that I'm talking about. Those are the ones that I don't get. Clinton was impeached for lying under oath. Is it seriously that much more desirable to have a president that lies 100x more just as long as it's not under oath? Not that I'm saying to start impeachment proceedings or whatever. I'm just saying that this is scary stuff to me. If your base buys your lies, and if you can kick out whatever newspapers you want from your press briefings, where does it stop?

[C0|dB|00ded]

Our "base" doesn't buy the liberal agenda.

Our "base" also doesn't enjoy Trump's rather uncomfortable idiosyncrasies, but are willing to look past them because his presidency has had more substance than we've seen since Reagan.

The alternative is a president who is cool and dignified and doesn't accomplish a ******* thing save for destroying free markets and weakening our presence in the world.

P.S. Trump didn't say anything about Charlottesville people, or KKK people being good. He said there was blame on both sides for the violence. The KKK had a permit and were within their rights to protest in the park. The Guerrilla Libtards on the other hand, were bused in and given orders to disrupt and attack the KKKr's. One of the racist wackos just happened to be spoiling for some action and promptly ran one of the Libtards over. Both sides were to blame for the violence.


T


...:cool:

[C0|dB|00ded]

Trump uses positive affirmations (with regards to his agenda) nearly constantly when addressing the public. Yes, a literalist would call it lying. But anyone with a shred of intellectual honesty would admit that all he's doing is marketing 101. The liberal media is not honest which is why they continually write stories entitled, "Trump just lied 87% of the time in his latest speech!!!1111". Low information Libtards eat it all up and then start tipping cars and burning trash cans.

Rinse-repeat. Same thing every single day.

In the meantime, a surprising number of Trump's "lies" end up becoming reality at the chagrin of his legion of haters. This is why the Trump supporters continue to support him. He's the first president in as long as anybody can remember that is actually doing what he said he will do. His executive strategy is not encumbered by political speak or decorum. While shocking and offensive to the herd, it has been surprisingly effective.

There is a very high likelihood that at the end of the Trump Era, we will have experienced some of the most radical economic growth in decades, will have the best relationship with Russia and N. Korea in half a century, gained some leverage on China's out of control growth, will have mostly fixed the border, and will have NATO transformed into something more practical and equitably financed.

Trump could end up in the Hall of Fame LOL!

P.S. This same time in 'Bum's presidency we were being told to lower our expectations on America's future economic prospects and that we were GOING TO (fiat PEN power babyyy!!11) model our healthcare system after the failing models of socialist countries. Oh what a difference a few years makes!!!

It's a GREAT day to be an American!


T


...:cool:

TLDR: Lies are fine as long as they further my agenda.

[C0|dB|00ded]

Not really.

Ever watch a commercial when they say, "You're gonna love our pizza!!!"

Trump: "We're gonna have a great relationship with Russia." "I have a great relationship with Angela Merkel."

Translated: He hopes to have great relationships with those entities. And I believe he works hard (in private) to do just that.


T


...:cool:

[wufan]

I’m not a fan of Trump. His tactics bother the hell out of me. I’m not a fan of everything he does, and I hate some of the things he does. That said, I believe that he is doing more good for the country at this time than the liberal/progressive agenda is doing. I hope I’m correct in that belief.

[ShockingButTrue]

I think Tump has proven that he can lie about just about anything and his base is going to take him at his word. None of his supporters have ever been turned off by his weird propaganda about having the largest inauguration crowds ever, or about not knowing any Russians, or even like two weeks ago when he said "HOUSE REPUBLICANS SHOULD PASS THE STRONG BUT FAIR IMMIGRATION BILL, KNOWN AS GOODLATTE II." and then three days later he said "I never pushed the Republicans in the House to vote for the Immigration Bill, either GOODLATTE 1 or 2." Personally, I think it's more likely that Trump is just making stuff up, but we'll see.

So now do you understand how the other side felt in '16? We'd had enough. It's an indicator (of many) why Trump is now the President, and probably will be for the next 6 years? The arrogance is breathtaking.


You submitted a false equivalent.

[Kung Wu]

... or even like two weeks ago when he said "HOUSE REPUBLICANS SHOULD PASS THE STRONG BUT FAIR IMMIGRATION BILL, KNOWN AS GOODLATTE II." and then three days later he said "I never pushed the Republicans in the House to vote for the Immigration Bill, either GOODLATTE 1 or 2."

The quote you post puts a period at the end of GOODLATTE II, yet his actual quote has a comma with more commentary. "Pushing Republicans" means being in direct contact with them and negotiating. Sending a single opinionated TWEET about what they should do is NOT "pushing Republicans".

[jdshock]

Edit: nevermind. Not worth it.

[Shockm]

Edit: nevermind. Not worth it.

Your go to when you disagree.

I don't always like the way Trump goes about things. He isn't diplomatic. I think that sometimes he says undiplomatic things without thinking and sometimes he says them on purpose to send unsaid messages. However, he says things that others won't. Other Presidents are more diplomatic (so people feel a little better in the short term) but in the long term, they don't unite our country either. Their policies are just as polarizing as ever. That's why you have the "coasts" who are dominated by liberals and the "flyover" states who are much more conservative.

During the past 15-20 years, the government has stopped trying to solve problems by working together in the middle. The extremes rule. But part of that problem is that even the Democrats don't agree on how to solve these problems (the Republicans don't either).

For example, the majority of Americans believe that you need to solve our immigration problems by stopping illegal crossings at the border. The two best ways to do that would be a "wall" with the mechanisms (border agents, roads for enforcement personnel, electronic means, etc.) to solve the problems and e-verify to enforce illegals not working. If the democrats agreed, they would have solved it when Obama was President and they had the majority in Congress (Obama's first term). If the Republicans agreed with each other, they would have solved it during Trump's first term.

There, I was honest and put blame on both sides. Can jdshock be an honest broker and place blame on both sides too? I think that some like to debate things (just like our politicians) more than solving problems.

[jdshock]

Your go to when you disagree.

Lol, what? If anything, I have a tendency to respond too often...

I'm pretty extreme in certain of my beliefs, but I at least have the self-awareness to understand it. The issue is people (on both sides, though, not really on both sides in this particular forum) thinking they're the moderate, reasonable ones.

[Shockm]

I think blaming both sides would be by definition, a moderate stance.

[Kung Wu]

I agree with jdshock, his modus operandi has never been to shut down when he disagrees. He just realizes the leftist media is wrong on this one and it's not worth defending them. ;)

[wufan]

I think the moderate stance here, that most would agree with, is that the US is propping up NATO for its own benefit (European stability is good for the world economy), but that Europeans should should increase funding of NATO in their own best interests as well. The only real disagreement is how best to accomplish this. This disagreement is being blown out of proportion as team Trump and team anti-Trump squabble about tactics.

[pinstripers]

When folks sign a contract, they'd oughta keep their part of the bargain.

[ShockerPrez]

I think that every now and then, a simple thank you would be nice from Europe in our efforts to maintain a military capable of thwarting an offensive by Russia and China if they so happened to fancy a little revenge against the Huns' stunts over the course of history.

Im no fan of Trump acting like an ass, but at the same time, its a little satisfying to watch these pompous, virtue-signalling, parasites get put in their place every once in a while.

[Ashockalypse]

A lot of us in Trump's base as you call it, don't really like his personality and believe that he shoots himself in the foot a lot. We just agree with the conservative policies and strong stances and not the hysterical lying that comes moment by moment from the other side.

[C0|dB|00ded]

Kind of a weird summit with Putin just went down...

I know what he's doing; he's trying to wipe the slate clean and show everybody how he can use his non-political style to break down old barriers. Some of those barriers are there for a reason, some might be artificial to support military interests. Who knows where the whole truth lies. Trump knowingly or unknowingly is allowing us a chance for a barrier reset. The countries with which we've had adversarial relationships with will either prove once again why the barriers were put in place or Trump will be hailed the Gandhi of our times bringing peace to the world while half the population of America's heads explode.

In the meantime, Trump will get absolutely crucified in the media over this Putin deal. All of a sudden Libtard Nation is the hawkish bunch of them all...


T


...:cool:

[ShockingButTrue]

Why would anyone think the intelligence community is questionable in their tactics? Aren't they America's official "Moral arbiters?"

weasals.jpg



... oh, wait...

[jdshock]

All of a sudden Libtard Nation is the hawkish bunch of them all...

Not just "Libtard Nation"

And to be clear, "hawkish" is probably the wrong phrase. As one of a few libtards on the board, I feel comfortable saying that many of us aren't any more hawkish than we were three years ago. It just so happens that in 2016, we started to think we'd been attacked by Russia. And there have been allegations that our president was aware of, or even participated in, the attack. So our ears perk up when he does certain things like: refuses to enforce sanctions against Russia that were passed by Congress... or publicly asks Russians to hack Clinton's emails (earlier on the exact day that they first attempted to hack her emails...) ... or comes to the defense of Putin and says he believes his denials despite more, and more, and more evidence coming out that Russia was absolutely involved in the attack.