A Common Sense Approach to Middle East Refugees.

[MoValley John]

Is accidentally discharging a weapon in city limits a gun crime?

DEPENDS

Is shooting a dog that seems like an imminent threat towards a kid a gun crime, even if it hasn't attacked yet?

DEPENDS

Is drawing a weapon (but not discharging it) on a stranger in your home a gun crime?

NO

On your front porch?

DEPENDS

Peeping in your daughter's window with a camera?

WEIRD, A POSSIBLE CRIME, BUT NOT A GUN CRIME.

Is replacing an ivory hand grip with a cheap plastic hand grip on an otherwise pristine antique Colt 45 Peacemaker a gun crime?

YES!

Answers provided in quoted section.

[MoValley John]

Is accidentally discharging a weapon in city limits a gun crime?

Is shooting a dog that seems like an imminent threat towards a kid a gun crime, even if it hasn't attacked yet?

Is drawing a weapon (but not discharging it) on a stranger in your home a gun crime?

On your front porch?

Peeping in your daughter's window with a camera?

Is replacing an ivory hand grip with a cheap plastic hand grip on an otherwise pristine antique Colt 45 Peacemaker a gun crime?

What is classified as a gun crime must be addressed open an honestly. Intent must be evaluated. Currently, our judicial system is a mess. There is no consistency and it has become a playground for district attorneys. That said, if you look at the so called explosion in "mass shootings" the vast majority are being perpetrated by gang bangers shooting other gang bangers.

I don't want gang bangers shooting each other, and the fact that the vast majority of these so called "mass shootings" are gang bangers shooting other gang bangers, doesn't lesson the problem. But looking in context, these "mass shootings" are largely isolated in areas where gang turf wars are taking place. We need to not release gang bangers after short stints in the joint, not because of me being racist, which I'm not, but because these gang bangers gain street cred by getting incarcerated, and these short time outs they currently receive, don't stop crime. Therefore, short stints in prison for shooters doesn't keep people safe. Furthermore, if you traffic and sell guns illegally, you need not see anther day on the outside.

[Rlh04d]

It can't be done without violating rights. Period. It's a stupid, poorly thought, lazy idea.

You want something that might work, I'll give you something. Let all of the potheads out of prison. Use that newly found prison capacity to house felons convicted of gun crimes. Tie the hands of prosecutors and don't allow plea bargains for gun crimes. First offense of a gun crime, 20 years, no good time. Conviction of gun trafficking, life, no parole.

Florida has a similar program, under their 10-20-Life law, which sets mandatory minimum sentencing:

1) 10 years for producing a firearm while committing a felony.
2) 20 years for firing a firearm while committing a felony.
3) 25-to-life for shooting someone with a firearm while committing a felony.

It seems to have been effective in Florida -- between 1998 and 2004, violent gun crime rates dropped by 30% (although gun crimes were declining nationally over the same period, so I'm not sure how much is due to the law and how much is due to the national trend). Have other states tried similar laws? I'd be all for including gun trafficking in that setup.

[Kung Wu]

Answers provided in quoted section.

The "Peeping" is a continuation from "Is drawing ..." line of questions. It was SUPPOSED to read: Is drawing a weapon (but not discharging it) on a stranger peeping in your daughter's window with a camera?

But unfortunately it can be read another way. Hahaha


Anyhow, my concern is that there are people, prosecutors, and judges in this country that for political reasons and out of ignorance would answer YES to all of those questions.

[MoValley John]

Anyhow, my concern is that there are people, prosecutors, and judges in this country that for political reasons and out of ignorance would answer YES to all of those questions.

This is the problem.

[Jamar Howard 4 President]

The topic of “mass murder” has been way overblown by the media and by the general public’s inability to understand that more coverage of bad things doesn’t mean more likelihood of bad things happening.

I am way more likely to get murdered in a 1 or 2 victim crime than a mass murder crime. I’m not less dead just because 15 other people didn’t die right beside me.

Murder is way down over the last 20 years. Mass murder appears to be up over that time period. The media has convinced way too many people that the net effect is that they should be more fearful than ever of getting murdered. Personally, I’ll gladly take today’s statistics over those from 20 years ago.

[MoValley John]

And most serial killers don't even use guns. They use ropes, knives and their bare hands. They like it that way, that's how they get off.

Instead of concentrating on getting rid of guns, maybe we should ban corn flakes, we need to stop serial killers.

[Jamar Howard 4 President]

Why do I have to have the perfect solution for someone who only asks questions but has no answers. Are you not capable of thinking for yourself?

I am not calling your solutions imperfect, as if they were good, just not great. I'm calling them bad, as in, would be worse than doing nothing.

I prefer the status quo over changes that I find to be a net negative. It is absurd to assume that I cannot voice my disagreement with proposals I find to be bad ideas unless I have solutions of my own. Making zero changes is always an option, and it is always better than making changes for the worse.

[Jamar Howard 4 President]

Very interesting. Any way you could superimpose gun sales over that graph to see if there is a correlation between the number of guns sold and the amount of murders? I mean as gun sales go up, so should the murder rate, if what we're being told is correct, right? So we should expect to see a strong correlation.

The number of guns in circulation in the USA has skyrocketed in recent years.

[SB Shock]

The number of guns in circulation in the USA has skyrocketed in recent years.

Everytime Obama opens his mouth, the gun makers get giddy because their sales skyrocket.

Was at cabellas this weekend and you could hardly get to the gun counter.

[shocka khan]

I am not calling your solutions imperfect, as if they were good, just not great. I'm calling them bad, as in, would be worse than doing nothing.

I prefer the status quo over changes that I find to be a net negative. It is absurd to assume that I cannot voice my disagreement with proposals I find to be bad ideas unless I have solutions of my own. Making zero changes is always an option, and it is always better than making changes for the worse.

You didn't voice your disagreement, you asked questions. Maybe you are being too passive. I certainly don't think I have all the answers. I don't really understand the whole gun thing (fast cars I do get) because I have not really ever been a gun owner.

I think gun owners need to be offering common-sense solutions. MVJ has advanced several ideas that look interesting to me. I think the real rabid anti-gun folks ought to sit down and talk to their neighbors who own guns. It gives you a totally different perspective on the issue.

By the way, you probably should apply the 'always better than making changes for the worse' to apply to the Iraq war as well. I think that's one area where we made changes and they blew up in our face. We finally learned our lesson and stayed out of Libya, but now that Khadaffi's gone, that place is also going to hell in a handcar. I almost think we were better with unstable dictators (Huessein and Khadaffi) rather than the 'democracies' of Arab Spring.

[SB Shock]

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[Jamar Howard 4 President]

By the way, you probably should apply the 'always better than making changes for the worse' to apply to the Iraq war as well. I think that's one area where we made changes and they blew up in our face. We finally learned our lesson and stayed out of Libya, but now that Khadaffi's gone, that place is also going to hell in a handcar. I almost think we were better with unstable dictators (Huessein and Khadaffi) rather than the 'democracies' of Arab Spring.

I am fully on the side that, in retrospect, the Iraq War was a net negative.

[Kung Wu]

The average American isn't concerned about being killed in a terrorist incident. They are concerned about Islamic terrorists and Islamic terrorist sympathizers coming over and recruiting here, brainwashing their children here, or spreading their rhetoric to the point that terrorist incidents in the U.S. proliferate and become a new normal, when it is for the most part avoidable. That's the concern.

[Jamar Howard 4 President]

You didn't voice your disagreement, you asked questions. Maybe you are being too passive.

I apologize for being too passive.

Here is your quote:

It's way past time for our society to say enough is enough...

...but no one seems to want to do anything about it.

My point was that we HAVE done things and we HAVE seen improvements. I do not care if mass shootings increase if the total number of innocent civilians murdered decreases. Being shot and killed is no worse in a mass shooting than in an "ordinary" shooting.

I am tired of the narrative that things are getting so much worse we absolutely must start implementing additional restrictions. I will always gladly accept any proposal that makes an existing problem better, but I despise the lie that we must act BECAUSE shootings are getting more common. Shootings are not getting more common.