Jeb Bush or Donald Trump?

[shocka khan]

Trump is a plant. He's said publicly he identifies as a Democrat. He's for national healthcare. He like Hillary. Thinks the economy does better under a Democrat president. So what if his right-of-center when it comes to immigration. That's not enough.

From what I understand Bill Clinton encouraged him to run. The Clintons don't do anything like that without calculation.

There is no scenario where Trump wins a general election. He's there to fracture the GOP and smooth the path for Hillary, should she even make it to the primaries. If Hillary falls by the wayside, then whatever Dem makes it.

I'm going to respectfully disagree with you. There are indicators that the Clintons tried to get him to run, and there are also indicators that Trump doesn't follow current republican orthodoxy. But to draw that kind of conclusion requires more than indicators.

There was a time when a considerable numbers of republicans were pro-choice. I am pro-choice. That does not make me a horrible person, a baby killer or a butcher. I think to abort a child is wrong, I have seen women do it for all the wrong reasons (an interoffice romance and unexpected pregnancy, for example). That is their sin and they will be called to account for it when they leave this world. It is not my place to legislate what a woman can or can't do with their body.

As far as the statement Trump made regarding the economy, name me one republican president since Reagan that handled the economy well. Bush the elder had to increase the taxes that Reagan cut too much and was castigated for it. Bush the younger should have been cracking down on banks' shoddy underwriting of mortgage loans, but he did not do it. He also fought a war in Iraq and kept it off the books (the funds expended were not accounted for in the federal government's fund accounting system), which made his deficits actually look smaller.

While I agree that Trump is fracturing the Republican party, the same can be said of any number of candidates including Mike Huckabee, Ted Cruz and quite possibly, Rand Paul. The real reason the republican party is being fractured is that the soul of the party is being contested between factions of the religious right, the tea party and libertarians. The moderates were driven out a long time ago and so all that his left are the extremes.

I'd like to ask a rhetorical question here. What made the Republican party so great during the Reagan years? The answer was that Reagan promoted a 'big-tent' republican party and tolerated diversity. Today's republican party requires purity oaths or the libertarians, tea party or religious right will threaten to sit the election out. This recipe has spelled disaster for the Republicans in recent elections.

I think Trump is an arrogant loudmouth, but he's more a social liberal and fiscal conservative. There used to be a bunch of those people in the party, but they were forced out by the 'oath keepers'.

As long as the 'oath keepers' refuse to tolerate diverse opinions, the segment of the voting population who approves of them will get smaller and smaller. One of my biggest disapointments relative to the party is their refusal to reach out to the Latin community. The only Latin segment the Republicans hold are the Cubans and they're losing them as the younger generation of that culture reaches voting age.

Until the republicans start working together and quit working at cross-purposes, the results will be the same. I think Bernie Sanders could beat most of the declared candidates right now.

So it doesn't make any difference if the candidate on the other side is Hillary Clinton or Bernie Sanders, the result will probably be the same. Mid-southern and southern states may still be reliably Republican, but the world is changing and until some bridges start to get built, there will not be much of a buzz outside of the people in the party around their candidates.

[SHOCKvalue]

Trump is a plant. He's said publicly he identifies as a Democrat. He's for national healthcare. He like Hillary. Thinks the economy does better under a Democrat president. So what if his right-of-center when it comes to immigration. That's not enough.

From what I understand Bill Clinton encouraged him to run. The Clintons don't do anything like that without calculation.

There is no scenario where Trump wins a general election. He's there to fracture the GOP and smooth the path for Hillary, should she even make it to the primaries. If Hillary falls by the wayside, then whatever Dem makes it.

Glad I'm not the only person who has thought this all along. Trump's god - after himself of course - is money. I think there is a good chance that a deep pocket dem booster has put Trump up to this whole charade by way of significant financial incentive. He's simply 2016's Ross Perot, only it is a calculated scheme, rather than an honest campaign for the presidency.

[shocka khan]

Glad I'm not the only person who has thought this all along. Trump's god - after himself of course - is money. I think there is a good chance that a deep pocket dem booster has put Trump up to this whole charade by way of significant financial incentive.

So do you think that Scott Walker supports the Koch's or not? Trump supports policies that line his pockets, sure enough. The Koch's also support policies that line their own pockets as well, and you better believe that Scott is thinking about that for fear of losing their backing. That's all part of politics in America these days. And like the Koch's, Trump is wealthy enough he doesn't need someone to underwrite his campaign. If he spends $400-500 million, it will put a dent in his net worth, but he will be far from broke.

Let's face it, whether it is a dem or a republican, all politicians are bought and paid for (except for maybe Sanders).

One thing that I can say for the Koch's, at least they are not like Warren Buffet, who tries to project a holier-than-thou aura while acquiring the modular home manufacturing, distribution and financing segment of our economy and ripping the poor off while claiming to be an everyman.

[RoyalShock]

I think it's far more than indicators. Rand Paul has an ad right now with video clips of Trump saying all the things I listed above. I don't know how you can support universal healthcare and identify as a fiscal conservative.

As for what troubles the Republican Party, I can't disagree. Reagan fractured the party, too, (the establishment did everything they could to keep him from getting the nomination in '76 and '80) but his timing was perfect (thanks to Carter) and ability to bring everyone back together made it work.

I often listen to Mark Levin on the way home from work. He's been playing some of Reagan's speeches. Even his concession speech in '76 was inspiring.

[shocka khan]

I think it's far more than indicators. Rand Paul has an ad right now with video clips of Trump saying all the things I listed above. I don't know how you can support universal healthcare and identify as a fiscal conservative.

As for what troubles the Republican Party, I can't disagree. Reagan fractured the party, too, (the establishment did everything they could to keep him from getting the nomination in '76 and '80) but his timing was perfect (thanks to Carter) and ability to bring everyone back together made it work.

I often listen to Mark Levin on the way home from work. He's been playing some of Reagan's speeches. Even his concession speech in '76 was inspiring.

I agree with that one. Probably the only things about Trump that are conservative are his stance on immigration, his fiscal opinions and the self-promotion initiatives we have yet to see (but probably will) that will favor his business interests.

He's not in this to win friends and influence people. There is some sort of gain in it for him (ego, monetary or other), otherwise he would not run. I do not and cannot accept that he is running 'to save our country'.

[Kung Wu]

I agree with that one. Probably the only things about Trump that are conservative are his stance on immigration, his fiscal opinions and the self-promotion initiatives we have yet to see (but probably will) that will favor his business interests.

He's not in this to win friends and influence people. There is some sort of gain in it for him (ego, monetary or other), otherwise he would not run. I do not and cannot accept that he is running 'to save our country'.

So which Democrat is?

[MoValley John]

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I'd love to talk politics, but too busy stuffing myself at the World famous, George the Chili King, Des Moines, Ia.

[MoValley John]

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[shocka khan]

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Sounds like fun!!! Eat some chilli for me.