LIbya Ambassador and 3 Other Killed

[1979Shocker]

Analysis: 'Manufactured outrage' behind Middle East protests

[1972Shocker]

It's not about the movie.

In Tunisia they were chanting over and over: "Obama, Obama, we are all Osamas". source

In Egypt they were chanting over and over: "Obama! Obama! We are all Osama!" source

In Kuwait: "Obama, we are all Osama" source

In Libya they were chanting Osama's name and hoisted an al Qaeda flag. source

Need I continue?

They were doing this on 9/11.

I move that we stop paying any attention to the straw man fallacy that a completely stupid movie that has never been released caused this.

Gee, are you implying maybe Obama and his cohorts (or those referred to as czars these days) might have stoked some of this emotion by continually spiking the football in killing Osama (especially during the DNC).

GM is Alive. Osama is Dead.

Nice bumper sticker I guess. I suspect more people saw Obama's spiking the ball than saw this video.

The bottom line is radical Islam absolutely hates the United States (and the West in general for that matter) and they don't really need an excuse to attack us and our interests.

The insulting thing is how dumb and clueless the admistration and the mainstream press think the American people are.

[1972Shocker]

Unfortunately I think that it is the religion that is the problem. I'm not saying that it should be banned or that people don't have the right to practice it.

The question I have is Islam as practiced in the Middle East really a religion or is it a political movement. When you govern according to Sharia Law have your converted your religion to a political philosphy or movement?

Unfortunately, I can't say I see any easy way out of the conflict between the modern society and Islam.

[Capitol Shock II]

They only respect power...that's it. If another embassy gets whacked a hail of tomahawk's need to rain down on one of their training camps. We don't need to send troops because we think we can convince them that the "Can't we all just get along" philosophy works when dealing with the Muslim religion. Keep the troops home.

I think that Iran needs to be stopped before we wind up with a briefcase nuke going off in Houston because we don't have a border plan. I hope the wind is blowing out of the North when that happens.

[1979Shocker]

The U.S. is going more with drones as a way to fight conflicts.

The Rise of the Killer Drones: How America Goes to War in Secret

The use of drones is rapidly transforming the way we go to war. On the battlefield, a squad leader can receive real-time data from a drone that enables him to view the landscape for miles in every direction, dramatically expanding the capabilities of what would normally have been a small and isolated unit. “It’s democratized information on the battlefield,” says Daniel Goure, a national security expert who served in the Defense Department during both Bush administrations. “It’s like a reconnaissance version of Twitter.” Drones have also radically altered the CIA, turning a civilian intelligence-gathering agency into a full-fledged paramilitary operation – one that routinely racks up nearly as many scalps as any branch of the military.

But the implications of drones go far beyond a single combat unit or civilian agency. On a broader scale, the remote-control nature of unmanned missions enables politicians to wage war while claiming we’re not at war – as the United States is currently doing in Pakistan. What’s more, the Pentagon and the CIA can now launch military strikes or order assassinations without putting a single boot on the ground – and without worrying about a public backlash over U.S. soldiers coming home in body bags. The immediacy and secrecy of drones make it easier than ever for leaders to unleash America’s military might – and harder than ever to evaluate the consequences of such clandestine attacks.

[Rocky Mountain Shock]

Again, I haven't read the Koran but according to a convert it does teach killing those who don't convert among other things...Again, I don't believe there is anything remotely comparable in the Bible? Correct me if I'm wrong? I don't know how beheading and death can be considered "Peaceful" Rocky?

If we didn't have the New Testament and were only living by what the Old Testament teaches, there would be verses such as these in 2 Chronicles 15:12-13:

Actually, '79 is pretty close to my point. I can't fault Christians for not understanding Islam more than I can fault Muslims for not better representing their religion. Remember, Christianity spent the better part of a thousand years being an incredibly violent religion (see the Middle Ages). Today, we have all kinds of things in the Bible that are questionable (for lack of a better word) to our society today. Paul said women shouldn't speak in church. Deuteronomy has quite a few examples of capital punishment. Many Christians still use these Old Testament laws when advocating against gay marriage and the gay lifestyle in general. So is it really the religion itself or how man choses to interpret the Bible that determines his behavior? I DO NOT want to make this into a discussion of our own religion, so all I will say is that there are some groups in Christianity who take a very hard line and read the Bible very literally, and there are some groups who take a softer stand. The resulting behavior is relatively dramatic. It's like comparing abortion clinic bombers with Presbyterians.

Same can be said about Islam. You have "liberal" Islamic countries like Turkey--you see a lot of unrest there, or bombings, or people being killed because they convert to another religion? No. Some southern Asian countries are predominantly Muslim but are nothing like your "hard line" Islamic countries like Iran. Compare how Afghanistan used to be under the Tabilan with Turkey and you get a pretty dramatic picture of the differences within that religion. When you have fanatical groups that take some passages from the Quran out of context, or twist its words to accomodate some goal they have, then you have situations like what we're in now--and you get a lot of Americans confused by what Islam really stands for.

[SubGod22]

Except there have been a number of former Muslims who have talked about the hate and violence that it teaches. I don't pretend to know everything about the religion and I know there are plenty fine people who follow the faith, but I've seen and read plenty of stories from converts that tells how bad it can be and is. Even in our own country we've had some horrible things done to young Muslims by their elders for not being "proper". And it happens much more in less free societies.

[SB Shock]

I can't fault Christians for not understanding Islam

There is nothing hard about understanding islam - all it take is a little studying.

Same can be said about Islam. You have "liberal" Islamic countries like Turkey--you see a lot of unrest there, or bombings, or people being killed because they convert to another religion?

You don't know much about Turkey do you? It is not liberal. If you live openly as a christian your life is in danger. Only thing restraining them is they want to get into the EU, but they are quickly moving to the hardcore side since the secular government has been replaced by Islamic leaning one.

No. Some southern Asian countries are predominantly Muslim but are nothing like your "hard line" Islamic countries like Iran.

You must missed the beheading of grade school girls as they walked to their christian school a few years ago - their only offense was they were Christian.

and you get a lot of Americans confused by what Islam really stands for.

There should be no confusion, they are not hiding it, only confusion comes from American laziness.

[Capitol Shock II]

Rocky...I think that you are naive. Being a muslim in American is not even close to being a Christian in the middle east. Not EVEN close. Please get real.

[kcshocker11]

http://news.yahoo.com/libyans-storm-militia-backlash-attack-us-225317193.html

BENGHAZI, Libya (AP) — Hundreds of protesters angry over last week's killing of the U.S. ambassador to Libya stormed the compound of the Islamic extremist militia suspected in the attack, evicting militiamen and setting fire to their building Friday.
In an unprecedented show of public anger at Libya's rampantmilitias, the crowd overwhelmed the compound of the Ansar al-Shariah Brigade in the center of the eastern city of Benghazi.
Ansar al-Shariah fighters initially fired in the air to disperse the crowd, but eventually abandoned the site with their weapons and vehicles after it was overrun by waves of protesters shouting "No to militias."

[Ixiah]

You have "liberal" Islamic countries like Turkey--you see a lot of unrest there, or bombings, or people being killed because they convert to another religion?

Your Turkey example invaded Cyprus in 1974, which led to 150,000+ Greek Orthodox losing there homes, and formed its own (Islamic) state that nobody but Turkey accepts. Yep, a real model of a "liberal" Islamic country.

[Anthroshock]

Your Turkey example invaded Cyprus in 1974, which led to 150,000+ Greek Orthodox losing there homes, and formed its own (Islamic) state that nobody but Turkey accepts. Yep, a real model of a "liberal" Islamic country.

The TRNC is not an Islamic state. Neither is Turkey. Only recently has the Turkish secular/military government lost ground to more religious political groups.

[Ixiah]

The TRNC is not an Islamic state. Neither is Turkey. Only recently has the Turkish secular/military government lost ground to more religious political groups.

Secular definition per Merriam Webster = not overtly or specifically religious

The Turkish government, in the name of secularism, has long imposed burdensome regulations and denied full legal status to religious groups, violating the religious freedom rights of all religious communities. These restrictions, including policies that deny non-Muslim comunities the right to train clergy, offer religious education, and own and maintain places of worship. have led to their decline, and in some cases, to their virtual disappearance.

Seriously - does that really sound secular to you?!

Nice try.


RockyMountainShock called Turkey a "Islamic state". I was just using his term in pointing out Turkey invaded a primarily Greek Orthodox island.

Did Turkey invade Cyprus = yes
Did Turkey's invasion result in a large population of Greek Orthodox Christians to migrate = yes
Did Turkey unilaterally set up a puppet state in northern Cyprus = yes
Does Turkey allow Christians to practice their faith without interferance = no (see below)
Will Turkey eventually gradually eliminate Christianity in northern Cyprus = US government seems to think so (see below)

Turkey‘s military control over northern Cyprus supports numerous arbitrary regulations implemented by local Turkish Cypriot authorities. These regulations limit the religious activities of all non-Muslims living in northern Cyprus, deny these religious communities the right to worship freely and restore, maintain, and utilize their religious properties, and threaten the long-term survival of non-Muslim religious communities in the area.

http://www.uscirf.gov/images/Annual Report of USCIRF 2012(2).pdf

[Rocky Mountain Shock]

Wow, this is going nowhere real fast. It's unfortunate that there are those of us who simply refuse to accept the idea that radical elements in other religions shouldn't define that entire religion. We could go on for awhile with examples of how radical groups and regimes distort Islamic teachings and resort to violence to hold on to their power or advance their beliefs. That's the world we live in unfortunately. I shouldn't have to remind anyone here that in many other parts of the world, the US is seen as a very violent country, or that radical Christian groups distort Christ's teachings. Those examples are just as numerous. I just hope that when others falsely judge you by the acts and beliefs of others, you stop for a minute and consider how no one is immune to this.

[SB Shock]

Wow, this is going nowhere real fast. It's unfortunate that there are those of us who simply refuse to accept the idea that radical elements in other religions shouldn't define that entire religion.

Might be because those radical elements are the norm, not the exception.

I shouldn't have to remind anyone here that in many other parts of the world, the US is seen as a very violent country, .

I can see that with all the car bombings, honor killings and suicide bombers blowing up busses and resturants that we have in the States.