Supreme Court possibly overturning Roe v Wade?

[wufan]

From what I've seen from Pew Research, 8% believe abortion should be illegal in all cases with no exceptions. 2% further believe it should be generally illegal in times and circumstances, but with some clear carve-out exceptions.

https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/?attachment_id=37518

Not having these as an option will take a lot of opinions of the poll.

The question stated, “threatens life or health”. So, I would answer that abortion should be illegal to that question as “health” is to vague. Being pregnant is inherently not healthy.

If they asked the question differently, I would provide a different response.

[Downtown Shocker Brown]

God reveals to us in His Word that not only does life begin at conception, but He knows who we are even before conception. (Jeremiah 1:5).

Is that you Dr. Cline?

[SHOCKvalue]

Is that you Dr. Cline?

Whoa. Small world. Went to school with his kids. My own wife might.... uh... know him as well.

[Shockm]

Is that you Dr. Cline?

I’m not sure what your exact point is, but I know several Dr Clines here in Wichita who are fine Christian anti-abortion doctors. The Dr. Cline I think you are making fun of, may rank up there with Hitler. I hope you’re not insinuating that all Christians are akin to your Dr. Cline. Abortion is truly an abominable thing and shouldn’t be taken lightly.

[Downtown Shocker Brown]

I’m not sure what your exact point is, but I know several Dr Clines here in Wichita who are fine Christian anti-abortion doctors. The Dr. Cline I think you are making fun of, may rank up there with Hitler. I hope you’re not insinuating that all Christians are akin to your Dr. Cline. Abortion is truly an abominable thing and shouldn’t be taken lightly.

Watch “Our Father” and you will be caught up.

[Shockm]

Watch “Our Father” and you will be caught up.

So are you "mocking" all biblical POV, on Abortion? I don't need to watch a netflix movie on a person who professed Christianity while living a lie. They cover those so called Christians (who will be held into account in the end too) very well, and aren't balanced when they do it. OTOH, Netflix probably won't show an accurate movie on Margaret Sanger.

I knew "who" you were referencing, and that he is unbalanced. I just wasn't sure if you were mocking all Christian POV on abortion because of him, or if you were mocking all Dr. Cline's. Whichever it is, it doesn't change the POV that Margaret Sanger (and many other pro abortion activists) pushed (and still push) Abortion as a means of birth control. It doesn't change the idea that we are killing millions of babies as a means of convenience, and to control births. The hard questions are when and where should "killing" babies be legal?

Also, since the woman is an important life, and the baby is an important life, and many people value both of them what is the proper response to their predicaments?
Should it be ok to kill babies after they are born? Some say so, especially in one party
Should it be ok to kill babies when they are partially born? That same party says yes.
Should it be ok to kill babies when they are in the womb in the first or second tri-mester? They say that the heart is beating after 18 days or so.
Are rape and incest a good reason to kill a baby?
Is the day after pill ok?


If one believes in a creator, my above post showed what the bible says about life, and when it begins. Dr. Cline didn't say those things, It's difficult to know what is right. Maybe a compromise can be reached that both sides can agree on. For IMO, in the end, we will be held into account for what we believe, and what we say about this issue.

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x8711qp

[Kung Wu]

If one believes in a creator, my above post showed what the bible says about life, and when it begins.

Are you sure? Because they appear to me to be more about God's omniscience and ability to see the future. The first one does indicate that we can be sanctified while in the womb -- so at some point while in the womb it seems the vessel is mature enough to harbor a soul, or at least the soul exists otherwise there would be nothing to sanctify. At what point, it does not say.

[Shockm]

Are you sure? Because they appear to me to be more about God's omniscience and ability to see the future. The first on'e does indicate that we can be sanctified while in the womb -- so at some point while in the womb it seems the vessel is mature enough to harbor a soul, or at least the soul exists otherwise there would be nothing to sanctify. At what point, it does not say.

Are you sure? Maybe you're right. It also does say that "He knows who we are even before conception". (Jeremiah 1:5). I guess for the sake of this debate, we are seen before we even knew it. It is known who will be killed before birth, and who won't be.

These statements are only valid for those who claim to be "believers". While "believers" are a part of our democracy, and vote, these POV's are probably not going to be a part of the national debate, and I realize that. However, our individual viewpoints are still valid.

I think that it's going to be difficult for Ralph Northam (who said that women had the right to abortion, even after birth), to agree with anyone who believes that the life begins at conception, or even the person who believes that life begins when the heart starts beating (after 18 days ). This is going to be the problem on reaching a compromise.

[Downtown Shocker Brown]

So are you "mocking" all biblical POV, on Abortion? I don't need to watch a netflix movie on a person who professed Christianity while living a lie. They cover those so called Christians (who will be held into account in the end too) very well, and aren't balanced when they do it. OTOH, Netflix probably won't show an accurate movie on Margaret Sanger.

I knew "who" you were referencing, and that he is unbalanced. I just wasn't sure if you were mocking all Christian POV on abortion because of him, or if you were mocking all Dr. Cline's. Whichever it is, it doesn't change the POV that Margaret Sanger (and many other pro abortion activists) pushed (and still push) Abortion as a means of birth control. It doesn't change the idea that we are killing millions of babies as a means of convenience, and to control births. The hard questions are when and where should "killing" babies be legal?

Also, since the woman is an important life, and the baby is an important life, and many people value both of them what is the proper response to their predicaments?
Should it be ok to kill babies after they are born? Some say so, especially in one party
Should it be ok to kill babies when they are partially born? That same party says yes.
Should it be ok to kill babies when they are in the womb in the first or second tri-mester? They say that the heart is beating after 18 days or so.
Are rape and incest a good reason to kill a baby?
Is the day after pill ok?


If one believes in a creator, my above post showed what the bible says about life, and when it begins. Dr. Cline didn't say those things, It's difficult to know what is right. Maybe a compromise can be reached that both sides can agree on. For IMO, in the end, we will be held into account for what we believe, and what we say about this issue.
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x8711qp

My only mock was the fact people pick and choose which parts of the Bible they want to live by, justify those only, and judge others based on the ones others choose to live by.

Mankind is flawed. We know this. But God made it clear in 1 Timothy that women should be quiet, not lead men, and submit to her husband. This and many other things have been pushed to the side.

In the end, the Bible makes it clear we are all Gods children, we are all sinners, and we should not judge others sins.

With that in mind, I believe like has been stated here, that legally if your life ends when your heartbeat stops, your life begins when your heartbeat begins. And while I do not support it, it is not my place to judge anyone who chooses to do this.

[wufan]

I think that it's going to be difficult for Ralph Northam (who said that women had the right to abortion, even after birth), to agree with anyone who believes that the life begins at conception, or even the person who believes that life begins when the heart starts beating (after 18 days ). This is going to be the problem on reaching a compromise.

Where did you get 18 days? The cardiovascular precursor cells start to develop between week 3-5. The heart begins to form around week 5-6 and will be fully functional before week 10. That said, it doesn’t work like a normal adult heart until 6 months gestation up to well after birth when the foramen ovals closes.

[ABC]

The essential legal question is whether the US Constitution protects abortion or allows it.

[atlwsu]

I hope no one comes to shocker.net for their theology!

[Shockm]

I hope no one comes to shocker.net for their theology!

Some people just make up their own. They don't care what the good book says, or in the judgement of a creator that is mentioned. Soon, afterward, they also don't believe in the Crucifixion, or the Resurrection. It's all relative, they say.

Only the creator judges, but we are all accountable to

[atlwsu]

Some people just make up their own. They don't care what the good book says, or in the judgement of a creator that is mentioned.

Everyone is a theologian, some good some bad, but everyone has a view of God(s).

[Shockm]

Where did you get 18 days?

Actually, I listened to a person who is knowledgeable on this subject. here is a source I found.

https://www.hli.org/resources/when-d...p-a-heartbeat/

According to Lumen Learning, the heart of a preborn baby

originates about day 18 or 19 from the mesoderm and begins beating and pumping blood about day 21 or 22. It forms from the cardiogenic region near the head and is visible as a prominent heart bulge on the surface of the embryo…. The primitive heart begins to form an S shape within the pericardium between days 23 and 28. The internal septa begin to form about day 28, separating the heart into the atria and ventricles, although the foramen ovale persists until shortly after birth. Between weeks five and eight, the atrioventricular valves form. The semilunar valves form between weeks five and nine.



https://www.babycenter.com/pregnancy...tbeat_10349811

A baby's heartbeat can be detected by transvaginal ultrasound as early as 3 to 4 weeks after conception, or 5 to 6 weeks after the first day of the last menstrual period.