Supreme Court possibly overturning Roe v Wade?

[wufan]

Actually, I listened to a person who is knowledgeable on this subject. here is a source I found.

https://www.hli.org/resources/when-d...p-a-heartbeat/

According to Lumen Learning, the heart of a preborn baby

originates about day 18 or 19 from the mesoderm and begins beating and pumping blood about day 21 or 22. It forms from the cardiogenic region near the head and is visible as a prominent heart bulge on the surface of the embryo…. The primitive heart begins to form an S shape within the pericardium between days 23 and 28. The internal septa begin to form about day 28, separating the heart into the atria and ventricles, although the foramen ovale persists until shortly after birth. Between weeks five and eight, the atrioventricular valves form. The semilunar valves form between weeks five and nine.



https://www.babycenter.com/pregnancy...tbeat_10349811

A baby's heartbeat can be detected by transvaginal ultrasound as early as 3 to 4 weeks after conception, or 5 to 6 weeks after the first day of the last menstrual period.

So this is a new problem in the “heartbeat” philosophy. What is a heart?

Obviously we said the same thing (literally no disagreement between what I posted and what this says), but used different definitions.

[Shockm]

So this is a new problem in the “heartbeat” philosophy. What is a heart?

Obviously we said the same thing (literally no disagreement between what I posted and what this says), but used different definitions.

The person that I heard may have said that the heart begins to form within 18 days, but I may have mis-heard.

You said this "The heart begins to form around week 5-6" , (which would be 35 days) while the article said it begins to form about day 18 or 19.

[Kung Wu]

So this is a new problem in the “heartbeat” philosophy. What is a heart?

It is whatever the medical community and politicians in your state collectively say it is.

:)

[wufan]

The person that I heard may have said that the heart begins to form within 18 days, but I may have mis-heard.

You said this "The heart begins to form around week 5-6" , (which would be 35 days) while the article said it begins to form about day 18 or 19.

That person is talking about post fertilization, which is not how embryonic development is charted, it’s charted from the last menstrual cycle. Go ahead and add two weeks to all of your dates and we are speaking the same language.

https://www.babycenter.com/pregnancy/your-baby/fetal-development-week-by-week_10406730

[Shockm]

That person is talking about post fertilization, which is not how embryonic development is charted, it’s charted from the last menstrual cycle. Go ahead and add two weeks to all of your dates and we are speaking the same language.

https://www.babycenter.com/pregnancy...-week_10406730

https://www.justthefacts.org/get-the...bys-heartbeat/

According to this article, you can definitely hear the beating heart after 21 days. I could hear it with my own ears.

So, are you saying that this information isn't true?

When did your heart start to beat?

21 days after fertilization - the heart begins to beat. By 4 weeks, the heart typically beats between 105 and 121 times per minute.


See the very visible heartbeat in this foetal ultrasound

---

Hearing the Foetal Heartbeat


Doctors use several different methods to listen to the foetal heartbeat. At about 3 weeks when the heart first begins to beat, the sound of the little heart is too soft to hear. Very soon after this, they can see the motion using ultrasound technology. A doctor's stethoscope is not sensitive enough to hear the embryo's heart beating.

A special stethoscope called a fetoscope works well when the foetus is larger, usually around 15-17 weeks. [1] An active foetus however, can make this method of listening a bit challenging. Often when the fetoscope is finally in the right place on the woman's belly, her foetus will change positions and the doctor must move the stethoscope again in search of the fetal heartbeat.

The presence of a foetal heartbeat confirms pregnancy, as long as doctors are certain to distinguish the foetal heartbeat from the mother's. Usually this is not difficult as the foetus has a much faster heart rate than the mother.


Listen to the Foetal Heartbeat beating at 150 beats per minute

[wufan]

https://www.justthefacts.org/get-the...bys-heartbeat/

According to this article, you can definitely hear the beating heart after 21 days. I could hear it with my own ears.

So, are you saying that this information isn't true?

When did your heart start to beat?

21 days after fertilization - the heart begins to beat. By 4 weeks, the heart typically beats between 105 and 121 times per minute.


See the very visible heartbeat in this foetal ultrasound

---

Hearing the Foetal Heartbeat


Doctors use several different methods to listen to the foetal heartbeat. At about 3 weeks when the heart first begins to beat, the sound of the little heart is too soft to hear. Very soon after this, they can see the motion using ultrasound technology. A doctor's stethoscope is not sensitive enough to hear the embryo's heart beating.

A special stethoscope called a fetoscope works well when the foetus is larger, usually around 15-17 weeks. [1] An active foetus however, can make this method of listening a bit challenging. Often when the fetoscope is finally in the right place on the woman's belly, her foetus will change positions and the doctor must move the stethoscope again in search of the fetal heartbeat.

The presence of a foetal heartbeat confirms pregnancy, as long as doctors are certain to distinguish the foetal heartbeat from the mother's. Usually this is not difficult as the foetus has a much faster heart rate than the mother.


Listen to the Foetal Heartbeat beating at 150 beats per minute

You aren’t reading what I wrote. In some instances you can hear the heartbeat in just 20 days post fertilization. This is equivalent to 5 weeks since last menstrual period.

[Shockm]

You aren’t reading what I wrote. In some instances you can hear the heartbeat in just 20 days post fertilization. This is equivalent to 5 weeks since last menstrual period.

I can read, but I may not understand. Above it says That the heart beats at 3 weeks but it’s soft to hear. It sounds like they “know” it’s beating.

[SubGod22]

You aren’t reading what I wrote. In some instances you can hear the heartbeat in just 20 days post fertilization. This is equivalent to 5 weeks since last menstrual period.

I haven't been following this closely, but why would the end of the last menstrual period matter when talking about the development of a fertilized egg? For the topic at hand, wouldn't the point of fertilization be where the life begins debate would start and then where development of said egg crosses the point of life/not life in this debate? I may not have worded that as well as I should have.

Basically, why would the last cycle be relevant in the debate?

[wufan]

I haven't been following this closely, but why would the end of the last menstrual period matter when talking about the development of a fertilized egg? For the topic at hand, wouldn't the point of fertilization be where the life begins debate would start and then where development of said egg crosses the point of life/not life in this debate? I may not have worded that as well as I should have.

Basically, why would the last cycle be relevant in the debate?

It’s relevant because we are talking about a time scale of days when the starting point is shifting on a time scale of weeks. when a woman needs prenatal care, she is the patient. You are tracking her pregnancy. Her pregnancy is 40 weeks. The first two weeks are between menstruation and fertilization.

Now, if you enact a “heartbeat law” which states that a woman can’t get an abortion after the first three weeks of pregnancy, well that’s two weeks before a heartbeat.

[wufan]

I can read, but I may not understand. Above it says That the heart beats at 3 weeks but it’s soft to hear. It sounds like they “know” it’s beating.

You can hear it three weeks after fertilization, which is the fifth week of pregnancy. We don’t actually disagree on the fact, I was just initially using the time frame of “pregnancy” as tracked. You were using “fertilization”. The first is relevant for the law whereas the second was relevant for biology. They are the same.

[Shockm]

You can hear it three weeks after fertilization, which is the fifth week of pregnancy. We don’t actually disagree on the fact, I was just initially using the time frame of “pregnancy” as tracked. You were using “fertilization”. The first is relevant for the law whereas the second was relevant for biology. They are the same.

So which stage describes conception? I ask because we know from Dr. Fauci that not ALL Scientists agree.

[wufan]

So which stage describes conception? I ask because we know from Dr. Fauci that not ALL Scientists agree.

I can only think of two definitions:

The time of fertilization; when the sperm penetrates the egg.

The time of implantation; when the egg is in the correct location to grow.

The good news is that no matter your opinion, they both happen within a day or two of copulation.

[Shockm]

Patrick Penn is a Black Conservative State Senator who has opinions that are easy to agree with for Right Center thinking people. Now, I don't know him well, and he is a newcomer on the Kansas Political Scene, but at first and second glance, I hope he continues to progress in State Politics. I think he could help our state. Here are some of his views on issues and the State Governor's office. His POV on transgender issues, Parental Educational Involvement, and Abortion are Spot On.


GOP legislator: Laura Kelly doesn’t govern from the center

BY PATRICK PENN

Gov. Laura Kelly does not operate from the “middle of the road” of Kansas politics. In fact, she’s far from it.

If the bipartisan persona were true, she wouldn’t have to be spending millions of dollars on television months before votes will be cast telling us about it.

Kelly’s record paints a much different picture than what her focus-grouped and poll-tested ads would have you believe. For starters, she vetoed 13 bills this legislative session, which is more than any Kansas governor in nearly three decades. That’s after she vetoed 10 bills last session.

Setting veto records is hardly “working with both sides.”

Kelly’s vetoes, and her views on major issues of the day, are well outside the Kansas mainstream.

For starters, she believes women should be forced to compete athletically with men. She vetoed the Fairness in Women’s Sports bill which would have enshrined in our state law something so decidedly non-controversial until only recently — that women should be afforded an equal opportunity as men in athletics. Gallup polling found 62 percent of Americans agree. Thankfully, our Republican nominee for governor, Derek Schmidt, stands with Kansas female athletes and has pledged to sign the bill.

Kelly instead stood with President Joe Biden, whose radical executive order will force any school that receives federal funding to either “allow biological boys who self-identify as girls onto girls’ sports teams or face administrative action.” So not only is she wrong, she’s willing to jeopardize school funding over her woke ideology. Does that sound “middle of the road” to you?

Kelly also vetoed legislation that would ensure parents always have a seat at the table when it comes to their kids’ education, saying that adopting the Parents Bill of Rights in Kansas is the “worst thing we could possibly be doing.”

According to Kelly, there’s nothing worse than making sure parents have control over what their own children are being taught. In contrast, a recent poll shows 88 percent of parents and grandparents in Kansas support the concept that parents should have the primary say in their children’s education. In vetoing the bill, Kelly sided with the 12 percent who say parents should not.

Perhaps the only thing Kelly might conceive as worse for our state than protecting parents’ rights are our common sense abortion laws that protect mothers, unborn children, and Kansas minorities. As a member of the minority community whose story could have been ended before it began, and with 59% of abortions being Black and Hispanic babies, this is an issue close to my heart. As a state senator, Kelly voted against every single abortion restriction that came before her. Just like opposing parents’ rights in education, she’s opposed to parents being notified if their minor daughter seeks an abortion. Pew research polling shows seven of 10 Americans support such a law. She voted against bans on late-term dismemberment abortions and abortions after 22 weeks when the child can feel pain. The same survey shows Americans favor such late-term bans by a two-to-one margin.

If Kelly believes in anything short of abortion on-demand until the moment of birth, she’s never said it out loud. Perhaps the reason is the abortion lobby, which shares her extreme views and appreciates the 13 percent increase in abortions the last two years on her watch, has pledged millions of dollars to defend her re-election.

Kelly has also vetoed more than 20 tax cuts - including food sales tax cuts in 2019 - and work requirements for welfare eligibility.

Kelly knows her re-election is in peril. That’s why she doesn’t want to be honest and talk about these issues. She would rather pull the wool over your eyes by portraying herself as a moderate, so she can spend another four years governing as a far-leftist in conservative Kansas.

Unfortunately for her, Kansans can see the game she’s playing.

Patrick Penn, Wichita, is a member of the Kansas House of Representatives

[SubGod22]

I don't hate Patrick Penn. Met the guy once, as he began his political aspirations here in Kansas. Seems like a decent human.

The Republicans choosing to run Schmidt aren't doing themselves any favors though.

[ShockerPrez]

Saw a blurb where a guy was arrested near Kavanaugh's house with a gun and knife....

I don't know what his polly leanings are, but he's in his 20s from Caifornia.