Supreme Court possibly overturning Roe v Wade?

[Kung Wu]

Rights are not granted to cells, dead or alive, they are inherent to individuals.

My issue with calling it a life with the beating heart is that the beating heart is not sufficient to sustain life. Additionally, being born is not enough to sustain life nor does it unburden the woman; therefore, I reject those preconditions as necessary to obtain rights. The DNA is what makes the person an individual.

With that, I would ask, why does a heart beat (especially when the mothers blood still pulses through the child) make a baby an individual?

Because it's consistent with the commonly accepted (but not universal) medical definition of death. Most people accept that when your heart stops beating, you are dead. The corollary then is that when your heart starts beating, you are alive.

[Shockm]

A believer in a creator who decides on human life, renders these decisions on life ethics meaningless. But relativism can make any decision righteous. Just ask Hitler, or Putin.

[Kung Wu]

A believer in a creator who decides on human life, renders these decisions on life ethics meaningless.

Not really.

[wufan]

Because it's consistent with the commonly accepted (but not universal) medical definition of death. Most people accept that when your heart stops beating, you are dead. The corollary then is that when your heart starts beating, you are alive.

Fair enough.

[Shockm]

Not really.

If we are talking ethics regarding life and when it begins, and ends, then are you taking over the role of the creator?

[wufan]

If we are talking ethics regarding life and when it begins, and ends, then are you taking over the role of the creator?

That belief is not a precondition for morality.

[SubGod22]

The pro-life movements greatest weakness is having too much focus on faith and morality in that sense instead of focusing on arguments of science and reason. There are a number of atheists that do a much better job of arguing the merits of the pro-life thought and honestly do a better job of creating dialogue with others because of it. I am a person of faith and I completely get the argument from there, but it doesn't do the movement or end goal any good to focus on that side of things.

Science can do much more for the pro-life side and the idea of when life begins. Yes, it can still be debated to degrees because some will interpret things differently, but I've seen a lot more pro-choice people swayed by logic and reason than I have with bashing them over the head with religion. You're never going to win the non-religious over with that. Also, let's not forget that there are a number of people who lean to the side of pro-choice because they don't think government belongs in making such decisions who are personally pro-life. There are a lot of people like that. Reaching and swaying them to start to lean the other way is also better done with science and reason.

[Kung Wu]

If we are talking ethics regarding life and when it begins, and ends, then are you taking over the role of the creator?

Correct me if I am wrong, but the Bible is silent regarding when the moment of death occurs -- other than to say that it is when the soul transcends. We do not know when the soul transcends. Nor do we know when the soul enters the body.

Simple example: When does the Bible say we should declare a missing person dead? It doesn't, of course, and you wouldn't expect it to. But we have to have an ethical, legal stance on that because there are a host of ramifications (such as life insurance claims, property concerns, wills, etc).

Since we cannot know when the soul transcends or enters the body, the promise made in the Bible is eternally awesome but the Creator has left many, many terrestrial "life ethics" problems for us to solve.

[Shockm]

God reveals to us in His Word that not only does life begin at conception, but He knows who we are even before conception. (Jeremiah 1:5). King David said this about God’s role in our conception: "For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother’s womb . . . your eyes saw my unformed body. All the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be" (Psalm 139:13, 16).

Society continually seeks to devalue the lives of the unborn, creating its own definitions of humanity based on distorted views of morality. But the undeniable fact is that life begins at creation, and a human is created as soon as he or she is conceived. God is present at our creation; He is, in fact, our Creator. Our value as human beings created in His image is conceived even before we are.

[WstateU]

"“If it comes to pass, we may soon live in a country where millions of women — not to mention our children and grandchildren lose the right to make decisions about their bodies and their health,” she went on. “Even if we knew the courts were heading toward this day, it doesn’t make the frustration, grief, and fear any less real.”"

Watch: Michelle Obama Slammed For Spelling Change - 'She's Sold Out Every Actual Biological Woman' (blabber.buzz)

[1972Shocker]

[CBB_Fan]

Keep in mind, another interpretation of the Trafalgar poll is that 100% of people believe abortion should be legal at some point or in some circumstances, which clearly isn't true.

[Shockm]

The pro-life movements greatest weakness is having too much focus on faith and morality in that sense instead of focusing on arguments of science and reason. There are a number of atheists that do a much better job of arguing the merits of the pro-life thought and honestly do a better job of creating dialogue with others because of it. I am a person of faith and I completely get the argument from there, but it doesn't do the movement or end goal any good to focus on that side of things.
.

That’s why my statement began with “if you believe in a creator”............. It wasn’t meant to argue the other side. I also have a problem with “believers” who are politicians who say that living out their faith isn’t meaningful regarding this issue.

[wufan]

Keep in mind, another interpretation of the Trafalgar poll is that 100% of people believe abortion should be legal at some point or in some circumstances, which clearly isn't true.

Do more than 1 in 100 people believe that the mother should die? I bet not.

[CBB_Fan]

From what I've seen from Pew Research, 8% believe abortion should be illegal in all cases with no exceptions. 2% further believe it should be generally illegal in times and circumstances, but with some clear carve-out exceptions.

https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/?attachment_id=37518

Not having these as an option will take a lot of opinions of the poll.