Trump 2020

[pie n eye]

I’m afraid that the “Swamp” and corruption is here to stay. Too many people go to Washington DC and gain wealth. Obama, Bush, Gore, Clinton and now Biden Harris all turn away from corruption as long as they can stay in power. Hell, even Bernie is a millionaire with vacation homes and he’d criticize others for having money. Biden has been in the middle of it for a long time (and now Hunter is with Joe in China, etc. ). The sad thing is that anyone who knows history realizes that “corruption” is the main reason for the downfall of most world powers and the standard of living disintegrating. Socialism will probably come if not for any other reason except that people get angry with the ruling class.

Joe and Hunter are in China??? Big if true. I swear I just saw Joe in Wilmington, Delaware giving a victory speech.

[Aargh]

If the strategy to win re-election is to challenge the legitimacy of the count if you lose, it's probably best not to announce that every other day for 3 months before the election. That probably put election officials on the highest alert EVER to make sure they followed the rules.

I'm confident that an examination of technicalities will find hundreds of questionable votes being counted - out of over 140 million. The most likely cause for a loss in a close election is this picture from the first debate.

trump shouting.jpg

[jdmee]

Don’t bother, I’ll get it for you.

Facts in USA Today article not found in buzzfeed article:

-Name of person who shot the video (Will Chamberlain)
-Occupation of person who shot the video (Editor of conservative magazine Human Events)
-polling station man was initially turned away from (Point Breeze neighborhood)

Also the article listed four additional sources on top of the buzzfeed article.

So is 1 + 1 not equal to 2 if it comes from a conservative source?

[Ta Town Shocker]

I really appreciated pie n eye providing the additional sources with the additional information.

Also I wish this was a place where multiple viewpoints could be expressed without the poster being referred to as "lefty" or "woke". I have appreciated the discussion in the political forum here for years but the relentless attacks recently are starting to turn me off.

Biden spent a good portion of time talking about unity last night and rightfully so. I might not be a fan of most of Biden's stances on policy but I'm willing to have an open mind moving forward. I hope others can do the same.

[Shockm]

Joe and Hunter are in China??? Big if true. I swear I just saw Joe in Wilmington, Delaware giving a victory speech.

Wherever you've seen him, Joe Biden is one slimy, swamp creature who has used the American government (foreign countries) to make money, and China is most likely glad he won so they can go back to winning the trade war by nefarious means, and stealing intellectual property from American businesses who want to make money in China, even if its not best for the American people.

[shox526]

Here is my sole foray into the political discussion. I have found many Trump supporters that will acknowledge there are good people that voted for Biden. However I found little to none of the reciprocity coming from the Biden supporters. The entire “if you voted for him, then you are him” mentality is so deranged, so shallow, so illogical that it is truly dangerous. This is isn’t cancel culture of a celebrity or sports figure, this is half of the country they are talking about. I am hoping it is a one off behavior but I’ve not seen anything like it ever and hope I never do again.

A perspective from a social liberal and fiscal conservative who has voted for Libertarians, Republicans and Democrats:

The line of thinking ‘you voted for person X, so you support them 100%’ is clearly childish. In most elections there are at most two viable candidates. So if you want to maximize the probability that your vote influences the outcome, you decide which of the two options you prefer. Many progressives disagree strongly with Biden in many areas, but they voted for him because they preferred him to Trump. Similarly many traditional conservatives disagreed strongly with Trump in many areas, but voted for him as they preferred him to Biden.

I think most people whose livelihoods aren’t derived at least in part from stirring up outrage, i.e. outside media and political circles, agree that ‘cancel culture’ is not productive. Differing voices in society must listen to each other to understand each other and compromise.

So if cancelling people is generally bad, we should be interested in understanding why it has become more common. Many (most?) of the cancellers seem to be in the media and political circles where outrage translates to $ and/or power. Those forces aren’t new, although they probably appear greater in number now with social media giving public voice to many people that previously were not heard from. So that element has been there, but they have a louder megaphone now.

Does that alone explain the rise in anti-Trump cancelling? Maybe, but to be intellectually honest we should consider other possible drivers. My observation there is that we hear people traditionally thought of as Republicans or moderates, and people who haven’t been as politically vocal before, aligning with the anti-Trump cancel crowd - less forcefully, but with similar sentiments. Examples that come to my mind include Lincoln Project-types and previously less publicly politically vocal athletes and sports leagues.

For me the question then becomes: why do those groups increasingly seem to align with what we hear from the militant cancellers? They weren’t as moved to do so in the past, so policies/forces that have been similar under other Republican administrations don’t explain it. So what is new about the Trump era? Views that come to mind as uniting those newer and more disparate voices seem to be disdain for what they perceive as a lack of empathy, humility, and respect for standards of conduct, and various resulting ills.

Those groups have historically either supported, tolerated, or less vocally opposed much of the Trump administration’s policies - the ones that have been standard Republican stances for decades. Why the rising intolerance for people who support supported Trump and those policies, even those that didn’t like Trump himself? My interpretation is that the newer and less militant ‘cancellers’ find some aspects of Trump so objectionable that they struggle to accept those that have seen Trump as a sort of ‘the end justifying the means’. For those who cannot tolerate some aspect of Trump, (whether it be a perception of encouraging division/intolerance, incompetence, lack of decorum, or whatever their concern), people who held their breath to vote for Trump in the interest of tax cuts, Supreme Court justices, or whatever their cause (despite having similar concerns with Trump himself), have become difficult to reconcile with as they struggle to see those ‘ends’ (for those that support them) justifying the ‘means’ of everything else Trump brings.

Is that fair? Depends I think on the relative importance of different moral and political stances to you. But I also think Republicans would be well served to not just decry cancel culture, but also have the humility to look themselves in the mirror and ask ‘what can we do to make fewer people want to cancel us’? Just the same as the cancellers and those who support them on the left should consider whether cancelling moves society forward. IMO in 99% of cases (other than cancelling clearly abhorrent people promoting violence/hatred), it doesn’t. We all need to grow up, hear each other out, and compromise as best we can.

[pie n eye]

So is 1 + 1 not equal to 2 if it comes from a conservative source?

Huh?

Please try going back and following the thread of this conversation. I think you might be missing some important context.

[wufan]

Buzzfeed:

According to a staffer at the Philadelphia city commissioners office, the situation depicted in the video really did happen, but there's more to it than what's shown.

"It was an honest mistake," spokesperson Kevin Feeley said in a phone call.

The poll watcher had a different ward than what was at on his certificate, Feeley said, and the worker misinterpreted the law and didn't allow him in. An older version of the law said that watchers must be assigned to specific wards.

According to Feeley, after the error was realized, it was corrected. “This person was allowed to enter and is there now,” he said.

A spokesperson for the district attorney's office also said, “Our Election Task Force has not received any complaints that fit what is being described or alleged in that tweet.”

USA Today:

A spokesperson for the Philadelphia City Commissioners' office stated the act was "an honest mistake." Kevin Feely said during a phone call with BuzzFeed News that the man had a different ward than what was written on his certificate. An older version of the law pertaining to poll watchers maintained such individuals must be assigned to specific wards, which was why the poll worker mistakenly turned the man away.

Once the error was realized, the man was permitted back.

"This person was allowed to enter and is there now,” Feely said.

The city's district attorney's office also denied any other complaints of a poll watcher being denied entrance.

“Our Election Task Force has not received any complaints that fit what is being described or alleged in that tweet," said spokeswoman Jane Roh to BuzzFeed News.

[wufan]

I really appreciated pie n eye providing the additional sources with the additional information.

Also I wish this was a place where multiple viewpoints could be expressed without the poster being referred to as "lefty" or "woke". I have appreciated the discussion in the political forum here for years but the relentless attacks recently are starting to turn me off.

Biden spent a good portion of time talking about unity last night and rightfully so. I might not be a fan of most of Biden's stances on policy but I'm willing to have an open mind moving forward. I hope others can do the same.

This is fair. I’ve been pretty loose with my call outs. That said, “Lefty/leftist” and “woke” are not insults. These are ideologies embraced by the American left, including some members of the democrat party.

BOBB, I know, isn’t a leftist, but is a democrat. I’m guessing pie n eye agrees with equity and that hate speech should be censored either by the government or corporations. If that is incorrect, I will withdrawal my statements.

[pie n eye]

Wherever you've seen him, Joe Biden is one slimy, swamp creature who has used the American government (foreign countries) to make money

I’ve seen you and others make this claim about him so many times. If you actually care to know there are many outlets who have researched this stuff. Joe, as a public servant, has released his tax return for many years so it’s relatively easy to trace his income.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/michelatindera/2020/10/22/how-the-bidens-earned-167-million-after-leaving-the-white-house/?sh=3603320c1e42

[Kung Wu]

Biden spent a good portion of time talking about unity last night and rightfully so. I might not be a fan of most of Biden's stances on policy but I'm willing to have an open mind moving forward. I hope others can do the same.

Why wouldn't the leftists listen to Trump's call for unity when he was elected?

I think at this point it's time for a special investigation to look into Biden's actions in China and other foreign countries in order to start framing the idea of a future impeachment. Also it's time to attack him in a relentless and semi-coordinated fashion in the media and on social media. This way the Child Lives Matter group will have a complete pass when they start looting and rioting in 2023 and the GOP can squeak out a win in 2024.

[Shockm]

I’ve seen you and others make this claim about him so many times. If you actually care to know there are many outlets who have researched this stuff. Joe, as a public servant, has released his tax return for many years so it’s relatively easy to trace his income.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/michela...h=3603320c1e42

The FBI has an open investigation into a Hunter but haven’t announced yet, if they are also investigating Joe and his brother James. Also, the MSM has refused to look into the latest information that came from Hunter’s computer. Hunter’s business associate (Bobulinsky) has implicated Joe as being involved in Hunter and James Biden making millions in China. According to Bobulinsky, the Biden’s tried to keep Joe away from documentary evidence, but there are texts that Bobulinsky gave to the FBI. I would doubt that this Republican Senate will pursuit impeachment as the Pelosi HOR did, but appointing an independent council to investigate like Bob Mueller was in the Russian hoax, is a possibility.

[wufan]

I’ve seen you and others make this claim about him so many times. If you actually care to know there are many outlets who have researched this stuff. Joe, as a public servant, has released his tax return for many years so it’s relatively easy to trace his income.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/michela...h=3603320c1e42

I’ve not called Joe “slimy” or used other similar term that I can recall. That said, I hold him to the same standard as other national politicians, and in the standard, I find him to be a crony.

The way cronyism works is not captured on tax returns. What happens is that some outfit that is moderately pro-Biden pays him $100K for a speech. They then use that payment as an opportunity to influence policy.

I don’t know how many books Joe Biden sold, but I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that his share of the revenue was much higher than a run of the mill author. If that’s the case, was it bad business or buying influence? It’s hard to say, but a tax return won’t tell you that.

[pie n eye]

I’ve not called Joe “slimy” or used other similar term that I can recall. That said, I hold him to the same standard as other national politicians, and in the standard, I find him to be a crony.

The way cronyism works is not captured on tax returns. What happens is that some outfit that is moderately pro-Biden pays him $100K for a speech. They then use that payment as an opportunity to influence policy.

I don’t know how many books Joe Biden sold, but I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that his share of the revenue was much higher than a run of the mill author. If that’s the case, was it bad business or buying influence? It’s hard to say, but a tax return won’t tell you that.

And where may we find the proof of your claims?

[Kung Wu]

I’ve not called Joe “slimy” or used other similar term that I can recall. That said, I hold him to the same standard as other national politicians, and in the standard, I find him to be a crony.

The way cronyism works is not captured on tax returns. What happens is that some outfit that is moderately pro-Biden pays him $100K for a speech. They then use that payment as an opportunity to influence policy.

I don’t know how many books Joe Biden sold, but I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that his share of the revenue was much higher than a run of the mill author. If that’s the case, was it bad business or buying influence? It’s hard to say, but a tax return won’t tell you that.

Plus donations to companies, foundations, children, etc.