Shockernet Has Become Politically Polarized

[BOBB]

I had a guy in a nonprofit board meeting yesterday say that the staff needed to prepare two forecasts. One that we would use in the event of a Biden win, in which we would be preparing to deal with massive civil unrest, depression, and the likely event of the 100 year old organization existing only in survival mode as the country "may not survive." The other budget based on a Trump reelection, which would entail hockey stick growth and warrant all the capital spending we could undertake. I've been serving in this organization for nearly two decades and I have seen some politics only on the margins, but everyone has always been rowing the same direction. This organization and country survived and thrived through two world wars, two red scares (1917 is very reminiscent of the times), 1968 and 9/11/2001. I think we'll survive a Biden presidency or a 2nd Trump term.

Call me crazy.

[C0|dB|00ded]

I did no such thing. I pointed out that I had looked into how he did business and saw that he wasn't what he claimed to be. Then I saw American banks bailing him out when he was in deep financial trouble, after which no American bank was willing to borrow any significant amount of money to him for the very reasons that I had identified in how he does business.

How many honest, credible, and trustworthy businessmen are unable to borrow money from American banks?

Before Trump announced his candidacy, both Eric and Don, Jr. commented that most of their financing came through Russia.

That's not a political position - that's an evaluation of how an American businessman does business.l

I'm going to have to disagree with this. Trump is/was/ not a fool. It was clear from his early interviews that he has above-average intelligence. It's also clear from respectable people who have engaged with him privately that he is an affable if not charming, thoughtful fellow. There is a major disconnect between private Trump and public Trump and I can only guess it's for strategic purposes. Strategic purposes being that he either believes, or was told that the vast majority of his base are blithering idiots and relate better to a blithering idiot than a more refined leader.

That being said... he is brazen and made a political decision to start the Covid Denier movement. This was a very foolish decision in my opinion. Who knows if it gets him elected or prevents him, we will see in a few months. But he has made his bets and he's sticking with it. I would have preferred that he eliminate the entire Covid issue from partisan politics by following the doctors 100%. This diverts nearly all the political backlash if things turn shitty. It also gives us the best chance of success because... well... doctors. But Trump wanted to turn this into a massive political win for him by casting the pandemic response as another iteration of Snowflake weakness. Most of you on here (even the sciency types, ate it up). Unfortunately, it has cost this country countless lost lives.

As far as his business dealings: I have researched this VERY thoroughly. I cannot say if more thorough than you. But my limitless appetite for information, my ability to analyze the minutia without losing site of the big picture, and near-immunity to cognitive bias, allows my ship to sail through very calm waters most of the time.

These are my findings:

Donald Trump is no more crooked than any other NYC developer. His ability to hamstring his lenders and thus survive the NY real estate depression, when firms MUCH older than his went broke, was no small feat. In fact there is a (now archived) NYT article detailing the absolute genius in what he was able to pull off.

Much has been talked about in the MSM how Donald never built anything, and if he had just taken his inheritance, he'd have the exact same net worth today. That point might be true. The stock market has done marvelously over his lifetime. But the reality is: his father was not in NYC. It was Donald that took a ton of risk and became known as the top developer in NY. His father was very, very proud of his accomplishments. He also achieved a very high income relative to his net worth - particularly when you consider it's mostly real estate. I believe he was north of 400M in 2018.

Then you've got the handful of bankruptcies that he's "famous" for thanks to the MSM. First off, a corporate bankruptcy is about as common as taking a dump. In fact that's literally what it is - a dumping of liabilities so the business may continue. Several of the bankruptcies occurred right as Trump took over to put them on solid financial footing - a very common practice. The one he is likely most responsible for is the Taj Mahal in Atlantic City. That gambling district has been rife with economic woes over the decades. For a while Trump was making money hand-over-fist. But he expanded aggressively (like he always has) and did so in the face of a changing financial climate. He has been involved in thousands of businesses during his lifetime and I believe is currently still involved in 500.

There are literally millions of people who have inherited a business from their father only to drive it straight into the ground. Trump evolved his father's original concept and greatly expanded it horizontally. He has never filed personal bankruptcy. End of story.

[wufan]

I don't think he was addressing you. I think he was addressing this post:

Funny that my brief and unnuanced post got so many interpretations. All I was trying to say is that there isn’t any one universal policy position that fixes issues if we still believe in freedom. You can force someone to work hard or you can force teach people. You won’t get equity out of that. If you’re unhappy with the results, you can eliminate the problem people. That’s not very liberal though.

So, freedom first! Give folks an education. Have high expectations for them. Help them out if they need it. We still have those that succeed and those that fail. Don’t rush into authoritarianism if equity doesn’t emerge.

[wufan]

I had a guy in a nonprofit board meeting yesterday say that the staff needed to prepare two forecasts. One that we would use in the event of a Biden win, in which we would be preparing to deal with massive civil unrest, depression, and the likely event of the 100 year old organization existing only in survival mode as the country "may not survive." The other budget based on a Trump reelection, which would entail hockey stick growth and warrant all the capital spending we could undertake. I've been serving in this organization for nearly two decades and I have seen some politics only on the margins, but everyone has always been rowing the same direction. This organization and country survived and thrived through two world wars, two red scares (1917 is very reminiscent of the times), 1968 and 9/11/2001. I think we'll survive a Biden presidency or a 2nd Trump term.

Call me crazy.

I think those viewpoints are to bearish and too bullish respectively.

[revenge_of_shocka_khan]

Nadler probably gave Trump 5 points in the polls with what he did in the House today. Trump probably gave 1 or 2 of them back by retweeting a hydroxychloroquine tweet from an easily discredited source.

Absolutely. And someone referred to yesterday's hearing as a $hit$how. I agree with that observation, but would extend that description to what the republicans did with Hillary Clinton hearings.

Don't get me wrong, I thought Hillary was a crook (and still do) but they had an ex-prosecutor (Trey Gowdy) holding the hearing, and he should have had enough brain cells to have known he should have been trying to actually prove a fact as opposed to a point.

So my take away here is that both sides do this and both sides will continue to do this until voters get smart enough to start punishing grandstanding (like Nadler and Gym Jordan yesterday ) politicians. As long as we keep sending these people back, they conclude that their behavior is a 'winning' formula and continue being stupid in public for all to see. I'm sure there are those who disagree with me, but seems like we are supposed to be electing politicians to work for us to accomplish great things, rather than getting their doctorate degree in extemporaneous theater.

Disclaimer: Since the Dems outnumber the Repubs in the House, they deserved their idiot award they worked so hard for yesterday.

[Stickboy46]

My dislike of trump has nothing to do with his politics and predates any of his political involvement. Long before he entered politics, I had concluded he was about the most dishonest and morally corrupt businessman who was not in jail. That is not a political statement or position.

I

I think it's extremely fair to be a person that generally agrees with most of his policies but can't vote for him to be president. That's where I fall. Im extremely down the middle on items.

I generally agree with most of his policies but I think he's just an extremely corrupt (more than most politicians), crappy person that is extremely unfit to be president. Part of the job is the presentation and at least attempting to provide a United front as a nation. He fails that miserably and Stokes the flames. Yes others are trying to create division in this country also but the president can and should be held to a higher standard (as it's literally the highest public office you can hold) His inability to keep his mouth shut and constant concern about how he's perceived is beneath what we should expect from our president.

I just wish the Republicans could just provide a different candidate... The other side just wants to give too much stuff for free to everyone rather than focusing on fixing why certain things cost so much (education, healthcare etc)

[Shockm]

I think it's extremely fair to be a person that generally agrees with most of his policies but can't vote for him to be president. That's where I fall. Im extremely down the middle on items.

I generally agree with most of his policies but I think he's just an extremely corrupt (more than most politicians), crappy person that is extremely unfit to be president. Part of the job is the presentation and at least attempting to provide a United front as a nation. He fails that miserably and Stokes the flames. Yes others are trying to create division in this country also but the president can and should be held to a higher standard (as it's literally the highest public office you can hold) His inability to keep his mouth shut and constant concern about how he's perceived is beneath what we should expect from our president.

I just wish the Republicans could just provide a different candidate... The other side just wants to give too much stuff for free to everyone rather than focusing on fixing why certain things cost so much (education, healthcare etc)

Practically Every politicians are corrupt. Most of them hide it well. Also, many like Pelosi are in districts that will elect them no matter what. All MSM hates Trump and are out to make him look bad. I hate MSM so Trump is the lesser of the two evils to me. There are enough checks and balances that Trump can’t hurt our country. Even Republicans leave him hanging sometimes. The ultra liberal Democrats always stick together and will take our country down the drain to liberal socialism and maybe Venezuela.

[wufan]

I think it's extremely fair to be a person that generally agrees with most of his policies but can't vote for him to be president. That's where I fall. Im extremely down the middle on items.

I generally agree with most of his policies but I think he's just an extremely corrupt (more than most politicians), crappy person that is extremely unfit to be president. Part of the job is the presentation and at least attempting to provide a United front as a nation. He fails that miserably and Stokes the flames. Yes others are trying to create division in this country also but the president can and should be held to a higher standard (as it's literally the highest public office you can hold) His inability to keep his mouth shut and constant concern about how he's perceived is beneath what we should expect from our president.

I just wish the Republicans could just provide a different candidate... The other side just wants to give too much stuff for free to everyone rather than focusing on fixing why certain things cost so much (education, healthcare etc)

And burn down cities...

[Stickboy46]

Trump is the lesser of the two evils to me.

Most of your post was jibberish from someone that obviously swing way right.

You did hit the nail on the head with what I quoted here. We've lowered our standards to voting for the lesser of two evils. The problem is that the lesser of two evils keeps getting more and more "evil"

[wufan]

Most of your post was jibberish from someone that obviously swing way right.

You did hit the nail on the head with what I quoted here. We've lowered our standards to voting for the lesser of two evils. The problem is that the lesser of two evils keeps getting more and more "evil"

I have an idea! Let’s take powers away from the executive branch so that it matters much, much less.

[Stickboy46]

I have an idea! Let’s take powers away from the executive branch so that it matters much, much less.

The problem is ... The people we elect to Congress aren't exactly better..

[wufan]

The problem is ... The people we elect to Congress aren't exactly better..

Same solution.

[wichshock65]

THe lesser of two evils keeps getting more and more "evil"

Honost question Stick, what exacly is he doing that is making him "more and more evil" in your eyes?

[Shockm]

The problem is ... The people we elect to Congress aren't exactly better..

The lefty SCOTUS with swing Justice Roberts siding with the left allowed Pres. Obama’s illegal Executive Order on DACA to continue which gave Pres. Trump (and all Presidents) more power to do his (their) own Executive Orders.

By by the way if “gibberish” is what you hear, I can help you understand if you ask. I’m only being pushed to the right by Far Left tactics by Democrats that began with Bork and has continued toward Socialism/authoritarianism

[Stickboy46]

Honost question Stick, what exacly is he doing that is making him "more and more evil" in your eyes?

Evil was only used because the phrase "lesser of two evils" was presented. I don't think he's evil in normal fashion .. like purposely trying to kill people. Just think he's not fit at all to be president like I stated a few posts ago.