Shockernet Has Become Politically Polarized

[ShockingButTrue]

I missed the hatred part. I only saw where he couldn't support Trump.

He just couldn't resist, in a plea for bi-partisanship, to throw out his dislike of his President. Understand?

He's not going to get any extra points just because he didn't bring up racism either.

[revenge_of_shocka_khan]

I think part of it is that before it was just a baker in Colorado. Even though I think he should be able to decide if he wants to bake the cake or not it really doesn't impact me. Now the attacks on our freedoms are impacting us. We see cases where we can get an abortion or go gamble but can't go to church. Where a restaurant has tables spaced more than 6 feet apart outside and letting people eat on them and the governor is threatening to shut them down. We see cases where we can't say "All lives matter" without the threat of getting fired. These things we are more passionate about.

Sounds suspiciously like culture wars (perhaps in reverse) to me.

Minorities in our country have been mistreated, the president seems to be laying down certain markers. That isn't helping.

Not to say that I agree with all these protests, because I don't. But it is hard to ignore the optics of what has happened and to say that minorities don't have a right to their frustrations.

As far as your COVID examples, I think (responsible) churches ought to stay open, if casinos can't practice social distancing they ought to be shut down, too. And although I love my adult beverages, the bars (at least the ones I've seen here in South Texas) should have been shut down.

Because our governor both shut down the bars and required masks at the same time, I can't tell whether the masks are helping, whether shutting down the bars is helping or whether we needed to do both.

I know there are a number of people who get distressed about the verbalizing of some of my political positions, but my take is that we should be absolutely doing everything we can to keep the economy open. And if churches socially distance, they ought to be open, too, if they want to. If that sounds like a socialist to you, you have a warped definition of what a socialist is.

Problem is that some of the churches, particularly the evangelical ones, don't think they need to socially distance, which has had the end result of getting a lot of people sick. They are employing the same logic that the bars are. We need to do everything we can to keep this stuff under control. These challenges will go on for another 7-8 months in my opinion.

[C0|dB|00ded]

It doesn't seem possible to be a Shocker fan and not support the predominant political opinion out here. I don't support Donald Trump and haven't supported him since the 1980's when I was working in real estate development and looked into how he was doing business because he seemed to be successful. He wasn't. He was technically bankrupt, but he was so deep in debt to American banks that they couldn't allow him to fail.

That knowledge and opinion has ostracized me from the mostly conservative crowd out here. Pretty much everything has become politicized and it's spread to ShockerNet.

I don't wear a mask because I don't respect my rights. I wear a mask because I respect yours.

This forum has produced a loss of respect for the person and for the opinions of persons who have political attitudes that differ from the majority.

The uniting fact that we are all Shocker fans is being overwhelmed by the fact that we may want to vote for candidates that other posters don't want to vote for. Are we going to allow that to polarize Shocker fans?

Divide and conquer is a proven effective strategy and we are seeing that in too many aspects of our lives.

OMG Aargh. Did you vote for Hillary?

I would say the average Liberal on this forum is more rational-thinking than the average Conservative. We have some seriously brain-washed people on here who'd likely get in a fist-fight with anybody using Rush Limbaugh's name in vain. I'm actually starved for some conservative intellectual discussion devoid of someone else's pre-programming.

Now I'm a loooong way from a Liberal, but I suspect most of the Democrats on here are more middle-of-the-road than they are of the AOC acolytical persuasion. I consider myself fairly Moderate with a few Liberal and Conservative issues that are important to me. I always thought of myself as a fiscal conservative and moderate to very slightly left-of-center leaning on a few social issues (like pollution, animal abuse, etc.). But after the constant friction I'm having with some of the Trumper members on this board with regards to Covid and ****ing reality... I am temporarily without affiliation. I'm not going to die on a hill over abortion and farting cows... but I do draw the line with the current state of brain-washing and conspiracy theory culture. When the MSM used to announce Trump having taken over the Republican party, I paid it little attention. I am now understanding what they were talking about. People follow Trump... period. Regardless. Well, I'm not a follower so... I'll get off the crazy train prior to it heading over the cliff - believe that.

But as far as presidential campaigns go; there is no way I'm voting for Biden. Trump sans wars or pandemics equates to massive economic expansion. That is just fine with me. After Trump hopefully we can get a little balance on regulations so we don't poison ourselves off the planet. Free markets DO require some regulation. That is a fact.

My background is economics and finance.

I drive an electric car.

I don't eat red meat.

I passionately believe in religious freedom without intimidation or prejudice.

I believe men are born men and women are born women, but if you wanna blow a guy... that's your business.

Gay people are some of the nicest people I've met.

I believe in very little if any social support systems beyond the mentally disabled or aged. If you don't work, you starve.

The religious organizations are a pillar of social support in America and it should stay that way.

I DO NOT believe that heath care is a right. You make sacrifices to have access to the world's most advanced healthcare system or you make do with the charity organizations.

I also would not penalize a child born with a condition.

I don't have a poltical opinion on abortion, but I think anybody aborting a child late-term for convenience is sick.

Living wage? Give me a ****ing break. May as well call it a Gamer's wage. It's been tried in the Nordic region with the expected result. People stopped looking for work.

After moving into clean automotive tech, I'm convinced it is absolutely the future. Nobody should be forced to buy an electric car, but moving towards clean energy is common sense as the population on this planet continues to soar. Tax rebates on more expensive electric cars makes sense to me. I like to breath clean air.

I don't think we should incentivize the reproduction of our species. I'm aware of the economic implications.

Free Markets and Capitalism are still the best solution to eliminating poverty, but workers should own more of the companies they work for so the middle class can catch up with the rich in benefiting from our country's economic expansion, and regulations limiting monopolies and big business negative exernalities are crucial.

I'm also for preserving forests, the ocean, and natural habitat. It's literally how we get the oxygen we breath and most of our pharmaceuticals. Don't pollute, don't overfish, don't dump plastics and chemicals into the ocean etc. etc.

[revenge_of_shocka_khan]

Rice would be my pick with Kamala Harris at the bottom. I could abide any of the popularly identified candidates.

I agree. I watched her during the primaries. I worked for everything I have and was turned off at how Kamala was offering everyone their 'free stuff'. I think we ought to help the poor, but that was a non-starter for me. I could get behind Susan Rice or any of the others being considered, another one I will throw out there is Val Demmings, who was the police chief in Orlando.

I probably agree with most of your positions, especially the concept of providing insurance for those who are unable to purchase it. We have too many people who like to show up at the emergency rooms because they can't get insurance. It may not be that way in Wichita, but it is definitely that way in Houston, Dallas and other large Texas cities.

But I have been called a socialist on a number of the political threads, so there's that, too.

[C0|dB|00ded]

https://twitter.com/fleccas/status/1287538621445296128?s=20

Here is Nadler spreading a lie.

Every time I see that video posted of the ape-like man and the tiny, dying Nadler... all I can think is: Why isn't that dude wearing a mask? Or maybe that's his intention? His massive pie-hole is spraying Nadler's minuscule body for the duration of the video. Nadler gets even a bruise and it's curtains by midnight. His handler should have done a better job.

Nothing wrong with Nadler going tits up btw.

Speaking of tits up... anybody seen Ginsburg lately?

[C0|dB|00ded]

My best friends are progressives and socialists. They’re really the only people I see outside of work right now. I mean SERIOUS progressives and socialists. One of my friends is raising their youngest girl as a boy. The other proudly aborted their third child. We aren’t friends because of our politics. I promise you those things disgust me. We’re friends because of other shared values. We still spend most of our time talking about and listening to each other on those things we most disagree about.

You need to find a better mix of friends. I mean... I'll listen to a ditzy Libby gal chirp away - maybe even have breakfast with her... but progressing in the relationship eventually becomes a mental marathon. If you can't get across to your Socialist friends how free markets actually protect natural resources (with appropriate regulations) in 5 mins. or less, you need to be reeducated on fiscal conservatism. Or they're just dumb.

Start the conversation off next time asking them this one question: What would happen if the gasoline you put in your car were free. Then go on from there; education, healthcare, etc. etc. It's game, set, match before you can say Pelosi.

[Shockm]

Sounds suspiciously like culture wars (perhaps in reverse) to me.

Problem is that some of the churches, particularly the evangelical ones, don't think they need to socially distance, which has had the end result of getting a lot of people sick. They are employing the same logic that the bars are. We need to do everything we can to keep this stuff under control. These challenges will go on for another 7-8 months in my opinion.

I’m guessing that you rarely set foot in a church and really are naive about what happens there. The evangelical church I attend social distances and have people who care about health as much or more than anyone else. The difference is that while they do all the right things and encourage people to socially distance, (worship online if necessary) especially if they are older or have another pre existing condition, the church I go to isn’t obsessed with it to the point they are fearful and therefore lose their joy of life. Why? Because they know that life for a Christ follower is to be joyful and if for some reason, they are taken by our Savior, they will be in a better place. Death isn’t something to be sought after, but it shouldn’t be feared either. Life is to be lived with joy and without fear.

i actually feel sorry for someone like you who are so obsessed with themselves that they demonize good people who have a different world view than they do.

[wufan]

I don't think Shockernet is any more polarized or hostile than the world we live in each day outside. I would even say Shockernet is one of the kindest, friendliest exchanges because many here do have WSU as a common ground. Social media is a very dark, angry place. Shockernet is almost a breath of fresh air compared to it.

Anyway, I think what is really going on is that the topics we have to address now are getting scarier each day so the reactions to them are getting more and more aggressive in conversation too. Now we are debating whether or not we can speak freely, worship freely and go outside, etc. and we are debating whether or not our own leaders and media are lying to us in the first place to arrive at that. People are bound to get louder and louder as the topics get scarier. I could be wrong, but that just occurred to me.

I can’t like this post enough!

[Downtown Shocker Brown]

I think it's an issue when someone like myself, voting for Bush, Dole, W, W (regrettably), Obama x 2, and Clinton (would have voted for damn near any other Republican), would vote for Romney over Joe, is called a socialist because I am left of Barry Goldwater. I think taxes should be higher on individuals. I think the government could and should do more ameliorate poverty, increase educational access, improve infrastructure, and balance the budget. I want property and businesses owned and controlled by private citizens. I want people free to do and say as they will without fear of the government or the mob. Somewhere along the way that made me a socialist?

I agree with most of what you said. Many in fact do. The separation is the process. We have proven we can’t spend our way out of poverty. If we take 1/2 the budget we are using now to give people things they could provide for themselves with the training and opportunity and applied that to teaching people skills (not college), they could go to work fixing the infrastructure and pulling themselves out of poverty.

[C0|dB|00ded]

I’m guessing that you rarely set foot in a church and really are naive about what happens there. The evangelical church I attend social distances and have people who care about health as much or more than anyone else. The difference is that while they do all the right things and encourage people to socially distance, (worship online if necessary) especially if they are older or have another pre existing condition, the church I go to isn’t obsessed with it to the point they are fearful and therefore lose their joy of life. Why? Because they know that life for a Christ follower is to be joyful and if for some reason, they are taken by our Savior, they will be in a better place. Death isn’t something to be sought after, but it shouldn’t be feared either. Life is to be lived with joy and without fear.

i actually feel sorry for someone like you who are so obsessed with themselves that they demonize good people who have a different world view than they do.

Fortunately and unfortunately, you just accidentally and quite succinctly highlighted the problem. While Christians "aren't fearful" of the virus, because for them, it's a possible golden ticket to heaven, the non-religious don't believe in that same concept. Therefore, during times of pandemics, a Christian not being trapped in "Satan's Fear" equates to a high negative externality imposed on those that believe death to be the end. The only solution that respects all of society is to take the virus seriously and not have large congregations meet indoors. NOBODY is asking the religious to stop practicing religion, they are only asked to stop meeting in large groups indoors... because the virus transfers primarily in the air... you... breath.

And if you are one of those that thinks Jesus will protect you from the virus... I have plenty of examples of churches that weren't "protected". I'm certain you do not believe Jesus will catch you if you jump off a cliff right? Well, inhaling the virus is no different. If you ignore science screaming religious persecution, you will learn science... the hard way.

Religious faith need not come in conflict with 99.99% of medical science. Now biological science and evolution... that's a whole different ballgame.

[wufan]

You need to find a better mix of friends. I mean... I'll listen to a ditzy Libby gal chirp away - maybe even have breakfast with her... but progressing in the relationship eventually becomes a mental marathon. If you can't get across to your Socialist friends how free markets actually protect natural resources (with appropriate regulations) in 5 mins. or less, you need to be reeducated on fiscal conservatism. Or they're just dumb.

Start the conversation off next time asking them this one question: What would happen if the gasoline you put in your car were free. Then go on from there; education, healthcare, etc. etc. It's game, set, match before you can say Pelosi.

The really great thing is that when you talk to a Socialist or a progressive, you recognize that you have 100X more in common with them as a person than you have differences in politics. The guy is super smart. He knows his philosophy better than most conservatives, I mean he’s an English Lit PhD from Berkeley, so you can imagine his level of education on socialism. His wife is a PhD in microbiology (also Berkeley). They know their ****. They also know good beer, and are good caring parents and citizens.

[wufan]

I agree with most of what you said. Many in fact do. The separation is the process. We have proven we can’t spend our way out of poverty. If we take 1/2 the budget we are using now to give people things they could provide for themselves with the training and opportunity and applied that to teaching people skills (not college), they could go to work fixing the infrastructure and pulling themselves out of poverty.

All left leaning folks believe that if we just taught people how to do stuff, they wouldn’t be poor. All right leaning folks believe that if people just tried hard they wouldn’t be poor. They’re both wrong.

[C0|dB|00ded]

The really great thing is that when you talk to a Socialist or a progressive, you recognize that you have 100X more in common with them as a person than you have differences in politics. The guy is super smart. He knows his philosophy better than most conservatives, I mean he’s an English Lit PhD from Berkeley, so you can imagine his level of education on socialism. His wife is a PhD in microbiology (also Berkeley). They know their ****. They also know good beer, and are good caring parents and citizens.

Well... if they're hyper-liberal but at the same time understanding of other's viewpoints... they're okay with me. In fact, I'd relish a "crack" at 'em. ;)

Beer drinking + a formidable buzz can transcend all politics and religion and make an entire room instant family. God I miss those times.

"English Lit PhD from Berkeley" - That almost sounded impressive/important/valuable. I bet it was expensive. :)

[Shockm]

Fortunately and unfortunately, you just accidentally and quite succinctly highlighted the problem. While Christians "aren't fearful" of the virus, because for them, it's a possible golden ticket to heaven, the non-religious don't believe in that same concept. Therefore, during times of pandemics, a Christian not being trapped in "Satan's Fear" equates to a high negative externality imposed on those that believe death to be the end. The only solution that respects all of society is to take the virus seriously and not have large congregations meet indoors. NOBODY is asking the religious to stop practicing religion, they are only asked to stop meeting in large groups indoors... because the virus transfers primarily in the air... you... breath.

And if you are one of those that thinks Jesus will protect you from the virus... I have plenty of examples of churches that weren't "protected". I'm certain you do not believe Jesus will catch you if you jump off a cliff right? Well, inhaling the virus is no different. If you ignore science screaming religious persecution, you will learn science... the hard way.

Religious faith need not come in conflict with 99.99% of medical science. Now biological science and evolution... that's a whole different ballgame.

What a covidiot. You contextually mis-quoted everything I said. Read it again with a higher comprehension level. There isn’t a problem in what I said if you can read. Everyone I know respects the disease in every way, but doesn’t live with fear or obsession.

[pinstripers]

I move farther right every day.