The Great Awokening and the Second American Revolution

[wufan]

Governor Brian Kemp has declared a state of emergency in Georgia after 31 people were shot and 5 people were killed over the weekend in Atlanta. He’s authorized 1,000 National Guard Troops to “protect state property and patrol our streets”.

[pie n eye]

So you agree that President Grant statues should be torn down?

You’ll have to fill me in on this one, I was under the impression he fought on the side of the Union.

[wufan]

You’ll have to fill me in on this one, I was under the impression he fought on the side of the Union.

You’re being intentionally obtuse.

[ShockerPrez]

So your argument for maintaining monuments to the confederacy, an institution whose main reason for existing was preserving and expanding slavery, is “the native Americans did it too”?

Obviously, I want them all torn down as I stated.

[ShockerFever]

I’m sorry but I don’t think it’s unreasonable to hold police to a higher standard than random criminals on the street.

And I would say that 99.% of the police force applies that logic.

How much would you have to make to be a cop right now?

[pie n eye]

You’re being intentionally obtuse.

If I’m being obtuse I assure you it is unintentional. I don’t understand what Ulysses Grant has to do with a not wanting to honor the legacy of the confederacy.

[pie n eye]

If confederate generals, then native Americans because they were both pro-slavery. That was the argument. You are being deliberately obtuse because what is happening is wrong and you are justifying it.

Sorry but I don’t buy the slippery slope argument or that the Native American scenario is all that similar to the confederacy. Whichever one you’re going for there.

[pie n eye]

And I would say that 99.% of the police force applies that logic.

How much would you have to make to be a cop right now?

I appreciate the vital role police officers play in our society. It is a difficult often dangerous and thankless profession. I would not nor have I ever wanted to be a police officer. However, I don't think that should mean they are beyond reproach.

[pie n eye]

Obviously, I want them all torn down as I stated.

I wish you the best of luck.

[Shockm]

Sorry but I don’t buy the slippery slope argument or that the Native American scenario is all that similar to the confederacy. Whichever one you’re going for there.

These issues should all be discussed and debated. Some Issues at that time weren’t as easy as black and white. My descendants weren’t in America until after the Civil War. Many of the Descendants of blacks in America came here after the Civil War too.

Here’s a story of some facts that many including you and BLM leaders don’t know about. African-American slaves were owned by other Black slave owners.

https://historyengine.richmond.edu/episodes/view/6699

Here is another article on myths regarding Alavert and facts you don’t know about. It includes facts that Wufan brought to your attention that Native p-Americans owned black slaves.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/facts-about-slavery/

Also the African slave trade was a world wide trade from 17th Century. Trade was happening in Europe, Greece, Mexico, Brazil and other parts in South America. There were European-Americans from America and Europe who were captured by Muslims in North Africa, and the Middle East in 1700-1800.

[pie n eye]

These issues should all be discussed and debated. Some Issues at that time weren’t as easy as black and white. My descendants weren’t in America until after the Civil War. Many of the Descendants of blacks in America came here after the Civil War too.

Here’s a story of some facts that many including you and BLM leaders don’t know about. African-American slaves were owned by other Black slave owners.

https://historyengine.richmond.edu/episodes/view/6699

Here is another article on myths regarding Alavert and facts you don’t know about. It includes facts that Wufan brought to your attention that Native p-Americans owned black slaves.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/facts-about-slavery/

Also the African slave trade was a world wide trade from 17th Century. Trade was happening in Europe, Greece, Mexico, Brazil and other parts in South America. There were European-Americans from America and Europe who were captured by Muslims in North Africa, and the Middle East in 1700-1800.

I see you’re going with the “everyone else was doing it too” defense. Bold strategy, let’s see how it works out.

[Shockm]

I see you’re going with the “everyone else was doing it too” defense. Bold strategy, let’s see how it works out.

No. My descendants never had slaves. Only 25% of Confederate citizens had slaves. Most of the Confederate citizens were poor and white. That’s why it’s interesting that there were Black and Native slave owners of Black slaves. The issue is more complicated than all slave owners were bad people and all non-slave owners were good people. John Brown, from Kansas was an abolitionist who was also a terrorist who murdered slave owners and sometimes others who didn’t own slaves because he killed first and then learned otherwise later. You want everything to be easily defined and this issue from 155 years ago wasn’t easy or simple. George Floyd was unjustly killed. But there have been hundreds of people (mostly blacks) who have been murdered since his murder in large cities by street thugs and terrorists who are justifying their actions in the name of George Floyd.

[wufan]

If I’m being obtuse I assure you it is unintentional. I don’t understand what Ulysses Grant has to do with a not wanting to honor the legacy of the confederacy.

You aren’t engaging in the argument. Instead you are misrepresenting statements and claiming straw man or pretending not to understand. For instance. It was stated that Indians held slaves and are not innocent, just as confederates are not innocent, therefore we should seek justice against all the iconography. Your response was “so you’re using native Americans to justify confederates?”

I returned with the Grant statement because it attributed something totally different from what you were saying to you. It was an example. I followed it up with an explanation in case you couldn’t understand.

You also made the leap to black people being inherently violent when I stated black on black crimes weren’t reported.

I think you understand these things, so yes I think you are obtuse. The alternatives are that you are deluded or an ass. I tried to give you the benefit of the doubt.

[wufan]

Sorry but I don’t buy the slippery slope argument or that the Native American scenario is all that similar to the confederacy. Whichever one you’re going for there.

You don’t buy the slippery slope argument on THIS PARTICULAR ISSUE? On the issue of statue removal? Where statues of Washington, Jefferson, Grant, Lincoln, and others have been removed? Where people said that confederates made them feel unsafe and then they went after presidents because this is a patriarchal country.

[pie n eye]

No. My descendants never had slaves. Only 25% of Confederate citizens had slaves. Most of the Confederate citizens were poor and white. That’s why it’s interesting that there were Black and Native slave owners of Black slaves. The issue is more complicated than all slave owners were bad people and all non-slave owners were good people. John Brown, from Kansas was an abolitionist who was also a terrorist who murdered slave owners and sometimes others who didn’t own slaves because he killed first and then learned otherwise later. You want everything to be easily defined and this issue from 155 years ago wasn’t easy or simple. George Floyd was unjustly killed. But there have been hundreds of people (mostly blacks) who have been murdered since his murder in large cities by street thugs and terrorists who are justifying their actions in the name of George Floyd.

You continue to go on these tangents for reasons unknown to me. I have no desire to litigate every scenario or person you can think of.

Leaders of the the southern states that would eventually form the confederacy, when provided the opportunity to end the practice of enslaving other human beings, instead chose to secede from and go to war with the United States in order to protect their right to own as property another human being.

That’s not something we should celebrate or commemorate in my opinion and I don’t believe you or anyone else on this board think that either. And yet you continue to play whatabout as though I’m expressing a controversial opinion.

Will taking these steps solve all the problems of the world? Obviously not but that doesn’t mean it isn’t the right thing to do.