Coronavirus 2019-nCov: Political Thread

[Downtown Shocker Brown]

Just have a pump bottle of sanitizer near your "shoe station" and take a little pump every time you have to touch your shoes. Even better is to wear shoes that slip on. There are plenty of fashionable choices for men (and of course women). :)

Germany had it almost down to zero for 4 months.

Japan, Australia, S. Korea, Taiwan, China, etc. etc. have the levels so low you'll feel quite safe. You will have to tolerate some hard lockdowns from time to time though as flare-ups occur.

Practically no country on earth will feel as "infected" as the United States.

As far as the U.S. is concerned, you'll feel safest in the blue states at this point in time - as much as it pains me to say that.

Wait... I’m in a Blue ran state, in a city/parish ran by blue. You’re saying I am as safe as I can possibly be? Great news!

I mean, we all know that Wal-Mart is “The Cowboy Club” here in Baton Rouge. So that is off the table. I might be overpaying for groceries, but never see more than 15-20 total people at a time in the local grocery store I go to. And they boys stocking always have masks on right and even wear gloves!

I had to stop and get gas yesterday, and man. Even at the pump all but one guy had masks on.

Yes, we understand each other in this discussion. As long as a vaccine doesn’t exist, everyone is at risk. Everyone should be accountable to protect themselves. But it isn’t the governments job. In fact, they are enabling the economically challenged by paying for the care of many people who didn’t wear a mask, went to block parties, and congregate at Wal-Mart. Breaking only by economic status in one of the states highest level of poverty in the country.

[ShockerFever]

Just have a pump bottle of sanitizer near your "shoe station" and take a little pump every time you have to touch your shoes. Even better is to wear shoes that slip on. There are plenty of fashionable choices for men (and of course women). :)

Germany had it almost down to zero for 4 months.

Japan, Australia, S. Korea, Taiwan, China, etc. etc. have the levels so low you'll feel quite safe. You will have to tolerate some hard lockdowns from time to time though as flare-ups occur.

Practically no country on earth will feel as "infected" as the United States.

As far as the U.S. is concerned, you'll feel safest in the blue states at this point in time - as much as it pains me to say that.

Trusting the data... lol

Hows that blue state Illinois doing?

[ShockerFever]

Really funny.

I absolutely was one of those that had hoped Covid would take him within an inch of his life.

Probably would have saved his presidency too.

Oh well... he got what he deserved. (Not the easy bout of Covid part).

99% of the people who contract the virus don’t come within an inch of their lives so those odds were stacked against ya.

[C0|dB|00ded]

Wait... I’m in a Blue ran state, in a city/parish ran by blue. You’re saying I am as safe as I can possibly be? Great news!

I mean, we all know that Wal-Mart is “The Cowboy Club” here in Baton Rouge. So that is off the table. I might be overpaying for groceries, but never see more than 15-20 total people at a time in the local grocery store I go to. And they boys stocking always have masks on right and even wear gloves!

I had to stop and get gas yesterday, and man. Even at the pump all but one guy had masks on.

Yes, we understand each other in this discussion. As long as a vaccine doesn’t exist, everyone is at risk. Everyone should be accountable to protect themselves. But it isn’t the governments job. In fact, they are enabling the economically challenged by paying for the care of many people who didn’t wear a mask, went to block parties, and congregate at Wal-Mart. Breaking only by economic status in one of the states highest level of poverty in the country.

As a general rule the blue states have had stricter Covid mitigation policies and have had lower infection/death rates AFTER the first two months when nobody knew wtf was going on.

Vermont, Maine, New Hampshire, Hawaii, District of Columbia, Delaware, Oregon, etc. are really under control. Places like Wyoming and Alaska are great too for reasons other than political. (density)

You can get your sundries and groceries delivered into the back of your trunk if you get familiar with the apps. Lots of great discounts paying via app at just about everywhere. You can get free **** every day at your favorite fast food joint. I've gotten at least one free Subway sandwich every time I've visited since the pandemic started.

Everyone should be accountable to protect themselves. But it isn’t the governments job. In fact, they are enabling the economically challenged by paying for the care of many people who didn’t wear a mask, went to block parties, and congregate at Wal-Mart. Breaking only by economic status in one of the states highest level of poverty in the country.

Some of the above was a bit contradictory. Let me present my case a little differently. We might find more common ground. Or we may not.

The vast majority of laws that are tested in this country are by lower "status" citizenry. I'm not going to get into the chicken/egg argument over whether or not it is their status that causes them to be less law-abiding or their lack of law-abiding nature that causes their status; let's just agree that most of the lawbreakers are the dregs of society. If America was populated only by folks like you and I, they could build one prison in America, stick it in the middle of Montana, and it would never get more than half full. We clearly understand that our standard of living is going to be better on the outside, than the inside. We make choices that benefit us in the future. We have good impulse control.

With that said; it is the governmental laws that restrain "these people", giving them an opportunity to make a choice. If there were no laws they would have no choice. The strong would take from the weak and that would be that.

If the consequences of Covid infection, drunk/reckless driving, etc., were borne by the perpetrator only, I would be begging people to not wear masks, drive drunk, whatever. I would buy a Darwinism t-shirt and wear it every day. You see, I'm a big personal accountability guy, natural selection, survival of the fittest. I have no problem whatsoever with irresponsible actors taking themselves out of the game. This is probably the foundation of my conservative political stance. But as I've explained dozens of times before on this site, when a person gets infected, they are part of a chain of events that have far-reaching implications. When you decide to go to the bar because you're really "thirsty", and you bring Covid home, you didn't just put yourself and your family at risk, you put every single person that may come in contact with the virus you manufacture in your body and shed all over God's creation at risk. YOUR virus production could be the death of your mailman or your mailman's sick daughter, or an Italian national that just happened to share an elevator with you at work. The only way to stop this exponential and untraceable harm is to break the chain of infections.

So now that we agree that the cost of one person getting infected is borne by more than just the infected, what avenues can we take to convince this one person that he/she would be best served to act responsibly and limit exposure to other potential hosts. Do we encourage? Do we attempt to foster a sense of "we're all in this together"? Or do we threaten? Unfortunately, our entire governmental system all the way back to England is based on Old Testament, punitive, stick-instead-of-carrot measures. It's not a bad approach either because most people are motivated more by pain than pleasure.

1) So we know we have an action that affects uninvolved parties negatively while receiving no benefit (negative externality); 2) We know that laws are required to influence the behavior of those who would seek to game the system at other's expense; and 3) We know that pain is a better motivator than pleasure.

So in the context that Covid is real and an existential and quality-of-life threat worthy of substantial mitigation efforts, and we have methodologies that will be effective if employed, then the only moral choice is to take action roughly along the guidelines that I laid out.

This is why I mock those that cry "LIBERTY LIBERTY". Liberty for whom? The malcontents that run around in the bars at night infecting over a hundred thousand a day because they basically don't give AF? While a dude like me sits at home and hopes his actions can counter those who've chosen to "be free"? Naw. That's not a fair system. A fair system is one where benefits and risks are kept as much as possible to each individual actor. When this simple metric gets out of balance, you create a law to move things back into equilibrium. If you want to speed to work in hopes of getting the best parking spot without getting out of bed earlier, you will risk a large fine or worse.

Hopefully this was clear. I don't have the energy left after typing this to make sure it all reads clear.

I truly hate ***** typing. But I love talking. I'm a very communicative fellow. I talk very fast in real life. So you must know the pain I am in when I communicate with ya'll through this medium. If we were all at a bar things would be oh so much better. A bar in 2021... :(

[C0|dB|00ded]

99% of the people who contract the virus don’t come within an inch of their lives so those odds were stacked against ya.

That's not exactly true my friend. The case fatality rate of those infected in their 70's is 8%. Almost 15% for those in their 80's. Trump almost had a 1 in 10 chance of going tits up. But of course that wasn't going to happen with the care he had access to. The fact that his oxygen levels were dropping indicates to me had he been a private citizen with modest means, he would have had a hospital stay. Perhaps even died.

It's great to be rich. It's even greater to be POTUS.

[C0|dB|00ded]

Trusting the data... lol

Hows that blue state Illinois doing?

Infections are growing in this country exponentially. We are truly witnessing the lily pad scenario at this very moment. We may yet see many hospital systems fail. But by and large, the blue states did better from April to October. We've already discussed this and I've already won this argument months ago.

Freedom does not reign in a pandemic. We are at the point in many cities where minor mitigation efforts will not be enough. Some cities will have to lock down hard and they are doing so.

[Downtown Shocker Brown]

Do t want to copy all that to address the main difference we have:

”So now that we agree that the cost of one person getting infected is borne by more than just the infected, what avenues can we take to convince this one person that he/she would be best served to act responsibly and limit exposure to other potential hosts.”

We can do that ourselves. We can limit our contacts. Protect ourselves in our own decisions. You think I’m overdoing it in regards to shoes, yet you contracted the virus and me and mine as of yet have not.

We can all make choices, those that keep us safe and those that put us at risk. Noting is fool safe, otherwise you wouldn’t have been infected. You or someone you n your family trusted someone who was infected.

All the laws in the world can’t stop Drunk Driving, Pedophilia, nor murder, so why do we think people will make smart decisions here?

[Downtown Shocker Brown]

Infections are growing in this country exponentially. We are truly witnessing the lily pad scenario at this very moment. We may yet see many hospital systems fail. But by and large, the blue states did better from April to October. We've already discussed this and I've already won this argument months ago.

Freedom does not reign in a pandemic. We are at the point in many cities where minor mitigation efforts will not be enough. Some cities will have to lock down hard and they are doing so.

See above.

[SB Shock]

Infections are growing in this country exponentially.

I don't think you know what "exponentially" actually means.

But by and large, the blue states did better from April to October. We've already discussed this and I've already won this argument months ago.

#1 State for Death - NJ: 1,920 death per million -- Blue State
April Daily Death per Day peak: 4,294 deaths per day
November Daily Deaths per Day Peak: 4,889 deaths per day

#2 State for Death - NY: 1,768 deaths per millions -- Blue State
April Daily Death per Day peak: 11,166 deaths per day
November Daily Death per Day Peak: 6,807 deaths per day

#3 State for Death - Mass: 1,538 deaths per million -- Blue State

#4 State for Death - CONN: 1,382 deaths per million - Blue State


If you take the Deaths of NJ, NY, Mass, Conn, Illinois, Mich, Penn. Their death rates per million people is 1,333

Rest of the U.S. death rate is 658 death/million.

Yes, the blue state did so much better....

[ShockingButTrue]

Freedom does not reign in a pandemic. We are at the point in many cities where minor mitigation efforts will not be enough. Some cities will have to lock down hard and they are doing so.

Jeez, I leave this forum for a few days, come back, and you're still prattling out idiotic nonsense about this go***mn bat flu.

So now masks and social distancing don't work, and the science really is mutable as this thing goes on?

Remember when the premier scientist on the case said this:

symbolic.jpg

Now that's some incoherent s**t right there. ; D

[C0|dB|00ded]

Do t want to copy all that to address the main difference we have:

”So now that we agree that the cost of one person getting infected is borne by more than just the infected, what avenues can we take to convince this one person that he/she would be best served to act responsibly and limit exposure to other potential hosts.”

We can do that ourselves. We can limit our contacts. Protect ourselves in our own decisions. You think I’m overdoing it in regards to shoes, yet you contracted the virus and me and mine as of yet have not.

We can all make choices, those that keep us safe and those that put us at risk. Noting is fool safe, otherwise you wouldn’t have been infected. You or someone you n your family trusted someone who was infected.

All the laws in the world can’t stop Drunk Driving, Pedophilia, nor murder, so why do we think people will make smart decisions here?

Actually, it appears I didn't contract the virus. I tested negative. Much to my chagrin. But I took a risk going to a chiropractor who got close enough to get me pregnant. My N95 was sliding all over the place when he was mounting me. Then he was sniffing while talking to me after I left. When I started having what I thought were Covid symptoms two days later... I figured my goose had been cooked. I think now I may have been suffering from a sinus infection.

Unfortunately we all cannot totally protect ourselves from a virus that is exponentially spreading in our community. Some of us have to work around others, some of us have to undergo continual medical treatment, some of us are elderly and rely on the care of the young, some of us are frontline workers, etc. etc.

So while we may not agree that actions that affect others negatively must be regulated, it is how our society has worked for a long time, and it works pretty darn well. Covid is just new and temporary and was unfortunately politicized so it's been a cluster****. But most of the other advanced civilizations on our planet have done a serviceable job adapting to the times at hand.

Imagine our country if we had no traffic laws, no felony laws... it wouldn't be a free society any longer. Isn't that an "absurd" statement? It is in fact government regulation that allows us to be truly free. There is a balance... as in all things.

[MikeKennedyRulZ]

Just have a pump bottle of sanitizer near your "shoe station" and take a little pump every time you have to touch your shoes. Even better is to wear shoes that slip on. There are plenty of fashionable choices for men (and of course women). :)

Germany had it almost down to zero for 4 months.

Japan, Australia, S. Korea, Taiwan, China, etc. etc. have the levels so low you'll feel quite safe. You will have to tolerate some hard lockdowns from time to time though as flare-ups occur.

Practically no country on earth will feel as "infected" as the United States.

As far as the U.S. is concerned, you'll feel safest in the blue states at this point in time - as much as it pains me to say that.

Wrong Clod. If you look at the top states for Covid cases it is split evenly between red and blue states. Try again...

[C0|dB|00ded]

I don't think you know what "exponentially" actually means.

Actually, I think I do...

...the question is, do you?

Dictionary

ex·po·nen·tial·ly
/ˌekspəˈnen(t)SHəlē/
Learn to pronounce
adverb

1. 1.
   (with reference to an increase) more and more rapidly.
   "our business has been growing exponentially"
2. 2.
   MATHEMATICS
   by means of or as expressed by a mathematical exponent.
   "values distributed exponentially according to a given time constant"

I don't think you know what "exponentially" actually means.



#1 State for Death - NJ: 1,920 death per million -- Blue State
April Daily Death per Day peak: 4,294 deaths per day
November Daily Deaths per Day Peak: 4,889 deaths per day

#2 State for Death - NY: 1,768 deaths per millions -- Blue State
April Daily Death per Day peak: 11,166 deaths per day
November Daily Death per Day Peak: 6,807 deaths per day

#3 State for Death - Mass: 1,538 deaths per million -- Blue State

#4 State for Death - CONN: 1,382 deaths per million - Blue State


If you take the Deaths of NJ, NY, Mass, Conn, Illinois, Mich, Penn. Their death rates per million people is 1,333

Rest of the U.S. death rate is 658 death/million.

Yes, the blue state did so much better....

As I've already mentioned, I'm not going to relitigate this issue again. I brought it up many months ago and it was crickets around here when I showed how all of the "2nd wave" was happening in "red states". The blue states like NY, NJ, Mass, Conn, were blindsided when the virus came over in January by way of Europe. It was allowed to spread for over a month before they realized they were balls deep in the biggest mess of their lifetimes. To fault them for the deaths then is to not be a serious person. Are you a serious person SB?

After everybody knew what we were facing, Trump began his liberation call and states like Florida (even to this day) made it illegal to enact mitigation measures in order to save lives.

I don't have rock-solid proof of this, but it has been discussed in many circles... it's possible the massive wave we are seeing now is the result of the red states keeping the baseline infection rate elevated over the last 5-6 months. Dr. Fauci has spoken extensively on the importance of reducing baseline infection rates heading into the fall season. We did not, and now we're in deep ****.

I'll just leave you with this in reference to my posts on blue vs. red states and infections that I went over months ago:





In one state we see adaptation then effective infection mitigation. In another state we see a reluctance to learn a lesson that was given to them freely from afar. Then once they were forced to learn their own lesson, they put their fingers in their ears singing "There's no Covid!"

Why are states like NY seeing infection numbers rise again? Again, it's like trying to put out a fire. If you don't put the entire building fire out, it will continue to reignite until all the fuel is consumed. When the East Coast got the virus under control, the rest of the country should have had an enforceable mask mandate in place so it had nowhere to go as it looked for more fuel. Instead, we talked about "different measures for different communities" as if the virus would stop at borders LOL! So of course the virus entered communities where there were no masks and little social distancing and w/ bars and clubs hoppin' and said, "C'mon boys! The party is over here!". And now the East Coast, after suffering from quarantine fatigue, and devastating economic hardship, is being asked to lock down their cities again because we wanted our Liberty and we're not going to be ruled by no damn Tyrant!!!111

Sounds stupid as **** doesn't it? Well, that's living in a pandemic with a president that doesn't believe in science.

Meanwhile the virus (and the rest of the world is laughing their asses off at us).

The virus be like: "Liberty! Liberty! More Liberty LOL! --- Nom! Nom! Nom!"

[C0|dB|00ded]

Wrong Clod. If you look at the top states for Covid cases it is split evenly between red and blue states. Try again...

I'm not gonna spoonfeed you reality on this subject. It would be too time consuming and I have work to do. Your mind is more broke than most on here anyways and I doubt your sincerity. Apologies.

[MikeKennedyRulZ]

I'm not gonna spoonfeed you reality on this subject. It would be too time consuming and I have work to do. Your mind is more broke than most on here anyways and I doubt your sincerity. Apologies.

Thank you for sparing me more of your mindless idiotic drivel. I could get more knowledge from Bongo the monkey.