Coronavirus 2019-nCov: Political Thread

[ShockerFever]

Yay! Stick isn’t responding back to me. I win.

Or he’s ignoring me again because he hates losing.

[revenge_of_shocka_khan]

To expand on this morning's comments - where I am, we added 53 fatalities from the pile we have been arguing with the state about (past unattended deaths) and 11 passing today, now over 500. Good news is that we are down to around 200 unattended deaths that are suspected COVID and we are down to around 225 on vents (and almost 300 in the ICU).

So.....perhaps we will get out of this surge with less than 800 dead.

[ShockingButTrue]

As far as who I'm voting for? ... So far I've stated that I'm not for shutting everything down nor for opening everything up full bore. So right down the middle. I actually stated in this thread I was for a hybrid back to school approach. Why would you assume that means I'm for Biden? Are you saying that unless you are for full bore no exceptions everything is open and "back to normal", you must be a Biden voter?

It was in the form a question. I had hoped you wouldn't hesitate in answering, but I understand.

"How many cases in this country are asymptomatic? What are the traits of the people most at risk for fatality? Shouldn't we by now be extending extra attention in their direction? We know that for a fact; it's really the only one to work with up to this point. That's just plain common sense."

Don't have the proper number of fatalities, along with comorbidities? That's the only empirical statistic to date, excluding the use of hydroxychloroquine.

Didn't shut the country down for 30 days, eh? Oh, yeah, Dillons. Thanks for the honest discourse.

[Stickboy46]

It was in the form a question. I had hoped you wouldn't hesitate in answering, but I understand.

"How many cases in this country are asymptomatic? What are the traits of the people most at risk for fatality? Shouldn't we by now be extending extra attention in their direction? We know that for a fact; it's really the only one to work with up to this point. That's just plain common sense."

Don't have the proper number of fatalities, along with comorbidities? That's the only empirical statistic to date, excluding the use of hydroxychloroquine.

Didn't shut the country down for 30 days, eh? Oh, yeah, Dillons. Thanks for the honest discourse.

There was far more than just Dillons left open. Also not all states did the same thing at the same time. Since we don't and should not control borders between states, there is little benefit to a shut down unless all the states are doing the same thing. As I stated, that's just not possible in the US for a multitude of reasons. The shut downs in other countries that could shut down entire countries and shut off their borders (in a way an individual USSUS cannot) worked.

The reason I didn't answer the Biden thing is because 1. It doesn't matter based on any of the info I have posted 2. I don't know who I want to vote for because neither are good options for me. I really hate choosing the least bad choice.

[wufan]

Why do people keep saying there are long term consequences? Even if there are, we won’t know for five years. Maybe the long term consequence is that you have immunity to a real super virus that comes in 20 years. That’s what happened with the swine flu.

Need to be weighing risk vs reward here. The risk to people under 60 without diabetes is pretty damn low. We should start there. Any objections?

[wufan]

BTW, the front line people I talk to, you know, the ones that see the 5% of the worst cases cuz everyone else is at home? They say that young healthy people are fine.

[Kung Wu]

Maybe the long term consequence is that you have immunity to a real super virus that comes in 20 years.

This bothers me. Locking down could be causing our kids to not get the antibodies they will need when they are 65+. We may be sacrificing our kids' future out of fear for our own.

[ShockTalk]

There was far more than just Dillons left open. Also not all states did the same thing at the same time. Since we don't and should not control borders between states, there is little benefit to a shut down unless all the states are doing the same thing. As I stated, that's just not possible in the US for a multitude of reasons. The shut downs in other countries that could shut down entire countries and shut off their borders (in a way an individual USSUS cannot) worked.

The reason I didn't answer the Biden thing is because 1. It doesn't matter based on any of the info I have posted 2. I don't know who I want to vote for because neither are good options for me. I really hate choosing the least bad choice.

I "liked" your answers because "it is what is".

Yes, many more than Dillons, and I still refuse to go into some of those.

There are benefits to have a system of states. As with benefits can also come problems. I feel the "states system" has more benefits, some very strong and very important. We are now seeing one of the disadvantages. Not only getting 50 states to agree on some things to help control COVID, but to simply get a few bordering states to agree on a few items that could help.

Your second paragraph, IMHO, is also spot on.

[wufan]

This was from June:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7327471/

Why aren’t we listening to science?

What science tells us:

This is a very contagious virus. It is deadly in people over 80 and in people that have diabetes and heart disease. It is not dangerous to kids or young healthy adults. It is less dangerous that the flu in people under 60.

Best case for a widespread vaccine in the US is Q2 2021. A few drugs might have positive benefits. N95 masks protect others from you. The effectiveness of social distancing is not well understood. The effectiveness of non-N95 masks might have positive benefits. Sunlight has a positive benefit. Alcohol and bleach work for hard surfaces.

What should be done?

My opinion is business as usual for college aged kids and younger. Masks when social distancing can’t be maintained. Zn, and Vitamin D supplements for everyone. HCQ at symptom onset.

[Kung Wu]

Coronavirus absolutely can not be looked at on a country-wide basis for a country this size. It can't even be reasonably looked at on a state-wide basis. You MUST look at this on a county-by-county basis.

You simply cannot pass state-wide laws that solve this problem. Tell me why the folks in Gove County, Kansas should be wearing masks, have curfews, kids should be out of school and not full-on playing sports. Explain that to me with a little data to back it, I dare ya.

As a state government your responsibility is to inform the county managers of each county what is going on, advise to the best of your ability what your task force is seeing, and give the most accurate data picture you can. Each county manager has to make the best decision they can for their respective county. That's what the data is CLEARLY saying. Each county is very, VERY different from one another, and NO state leader has a grasp of what is happening locally at every county.

[ShockTalk]

BTW, the front line people I talk to, you know, the ones that see the 5% of the worst cases cuz everyone else is at home? They say that young healthy people are fine.

I'd be interested in seeing a study of all those who died and how many had underlying problems. Of those problems, 1. How many were problems likely created by the individual (unhealthy life style, smoking, obesity and problems arising from that, and so on), 2. Those who were born with an underlying problem, 3. Basically "living too long" to where one simply cannot fight it off, and 4. Those who are in none of the first three.

I still contend that our "higher rate than other countries" may come from more of #1 and #3, than it does from our lack of so called proper attention to the problem. Just speculating, no facts.

[ShockingButTrue]

There was far more than just Dillons left open.

Ok. Walmart, and QT too. Hardly far more when juxtaposed with what was actually closed. I was there too stick.

It was an economic shutdown. The NYSE opened back up May the 26th (60 days). Word games.

[Stickboy46]

Ok. Walmart, and QT too. Hardly far more when juxtaposed with what was actually closed. I was there too stick.

It was an economic shutdown. The NYSE opened back up May the 26th. Word games.

Dillon's, Walmart, QT, Target, home depot, Lowe's, Menard's, best buy, Sam's, Costco, PetSmart, car dealerships, gun shops, sports stores. ask any retail worker that worked during that.. they were busier than they have been in a long time during that. Especially Home Depot and Lowe's. The list of exceptions was huge.

I'll agree with you on the economic shutdown though. We managed to shut down our economy without actually accomplishing the goal of a shutdown. We also managed to prop up the big box retailers in the process while really killing the small guy

[wichshock65]

Coronavirus absolutely can not be looked at on a country-wide basis for a country this size. It can't even be reasonably looked at on a state-wide basis. You MUST look at this on a county-by-county basis.

You simply cannot pass state-wide laws that solve this problem. Tell me why the folks in Gove County, Kansas should be wearing masks, have curfews, kids should be out of school and not full-on playing sports. Explain that to me with a little data to back it, I dare ya.

As a state government your responsibility is to inform the county managers of each county what is going on, advise to the best of your ability what your task force is seeing, and give the most accurate data picture you can. Each county manager has to make the best decision they can for their respective county. That's what the data is CLEARLY saying. Each county is very, VERY different from one another, and NO state leader has a grasp of what is happening locally at every county.

Because we are shutting down basically all college sports, I would assume we have had a large number of college athlete deaths, right? Or has it been a large number of college athlete hospitalizations? Been looking over the interwebs and can't seem to find any stats on this at all.

[wufan]

Because we are shutting down basically all college sports, I would assume we have had a large number of college athlete deaths, right? Or has it been a large number of college athlete hospitalizations? Been looking over the interwebs and can't seem to find any stats on this at all.

There’s not even anecdotal evidence.