KSHSAA is officially falling off the stupid bus...

[shockmonster]

I don't know for sure but I doubt that Trinity (Hutch), or KMC and Carroll (Wichita) are driving this thing. Collegiate, Miege, and Colgan are examples who are winning a lot and I think that the smaller schools in their leagues/districts, and classifications are more likely unhappy and believe that these schools are unfairly recruiting on them when they have to win with what they have. Don't know but this is my opinion from the outside.

[wsushox1]

Trinity is on the lower end of 4A. The bottom 20. The lowest 5A school has nearly 300 more students.

As far as out of district students go, I know Circle accepts a number of them but I can't recall any being athletes. But I'm not sure exactly where the Oil Hill/El Dorado line is drawn either.

Hutch Trinity has about 125 or so less than Wichita Trinity. For whatever that's worth.

I have friends that I go to school with that live in the Circle school district just on the the other side of Oil Hill road here in El Dorado. Heck, I live in the Bluestem School District but I go to El Dorado. I have been going to El Dorado since Kindergarten so I did not transfer in.

This really is a topic I don't want to get too involved in as it affects me personally.

[sdshox]

I will not address recruiting, because everyone has staunch opinions on what does/does not happen. Being involved in HS athletics, I will say that it does happen, formal or informal, direct or indirect. Period.

However, the issue that I contend makes the most dramatic affect is that of Special Education. Many private schools will not accept Special Education kids, specifically those with any sort of learning disability. Furthermore, private schools generally will not enroll free/reduced lunch students or English-Learned Language (Second language, hispanic descent) kids at the same ratio - as public schools are mandated to do.

Each of these groups of students still counts in a school's total enrollment numbers, but participation rates in activities, specifically athletics, is dramatically less.

Is separating private schools to their own association/championships the way to go? No. Is moving private schools up a classification for competition purposes a viable solution to correcting the imbalance of true participants? Maybe.

However this plays out, be sure that the other 49 states are watching intently. Either way, I think we are seeing a fundamental shift of sports/athletics out of public schools and are staring a club-sports only (AAU) era ushering itself in as the standard in a BIG hurry.

[vbird53]

Either way, I think we are seeing a fundamental shift of sports/athletics out of public schools and are staring a club-sports only (AAU) era ushering itself in as the standard in a BIG hurry.

How sad.

[shocklight]

Collegiate is the main problem to some(most). In the last 20 years Collegiate has won state 3 times (football/basketball/baseball). I think that is hardly a problem. In the same time period ( I don't have time to look it up) no other private school has won state other than the smaller sports.

What makes more sense to me would be to move Collegiate to the City League or the Ark Valley League. I can't speak for the people at Collegiate, but I would think that would be more welcomed by them.

Another poster said that it would be good for the private schools to be in there own league. His point is one that makes some sense. However, travel costs would be to large to manage and recruiting then would probably go wild. Just my opinion.

It looks like I was wrong on the size of the Trinities. Last I remembered they were both 3A. However, neither should be playing Hutchinson, which was the point of that topic.

[SubGod22]

Collegiate is moving the the AVCTL next year as Kingman is moving out.

Hayden has won state a few times in the last 20 years.

[The Mad Hatter]

Collegiate is moving the the AVCTL next year as Kingman is moving out.

Hayden has won state a few times in the last 20 years.

Wichita Trinity won state in basketball a couple of years ago.

[RoyalShock]

I still don't see the "risk" (of physical harm they aren't already risking) in Wichita Trinity playing Hutch. But if the 4A classification was fixed, a bump up in classification wouldn't put them in the same class as Hutch.

I'm not advocating the class bump, just pointing out if it were done and the 4A disparity addressed, they would still be playing among what is currently the larger 4A schools.

[AG1219]

Not sure what kind of recruiting, if any, happens at St. Thomas Aquinas in KC, but I've always been amazed at how they dominate at just about every sport. Since the early 1990s they have won 51 State Championships and have had 37 State Runner-ups. Not sure how other schools match up, but that seems outrageous.

Note: I didn't count Debate, Forensics or Scholars Bowl

[Awesome Sauce Malone]

Isnt Collegiate moving up to 4a along with moving to the AVLCTL?

Thought I read that.

[ShockerGorilla]

Isnt Collegiate moving up to 4a along with moving to the AVLCTL?

Thought I read that.

Yes, in Div. 4 with Andale & Maize South.

[SubGod22]

Isnt Collegiate moving up to 4a along with moving to the AVLCTL?

Thought I read that.

Yes, in Div. 4 with Andale & Maize South.

Along with Circle, Clearwater and Wellington. I'm curious to see how things go for them with a little tougher competition.

[BostonWu]

Not enough private schools in Kansas to form a separate classification. And if you want to talk about putting kids at risk try pitting Hutch Trinity against BC on the gridiron. Too much disparity among ICT/KC privates and all the rest scattered throughut the state. This only works in large states and/or densely populated areas.

Finally, while I think there's evidence that Collegiate has recruited in the past and probably continues to do so, the kids at Carroll have attended Catholic schools starting in kindergarten. Now KMC has a spotty record dating back to the 80's when I believe they forfeited a state championship (either fb or bb) due to a player by the last name of Fox. There's always been a little "diversity" over on the eastside privates.

[DoubleJayAlum]

This topic has gotten my interest as it is occasionally debated up here in Omaha too. As a bit of an advocate for private schools, this issue is of special concern to me.

Here is the real issue though - by the pure nature of being a private school in the first place, a private school has to RECRUIT its entire student enrollment. Unlike public schools, there are not set geographic areas where kids automatically are required to enroll at the institution. How do you put rules into place that essentially say, "you can recruit whomever you want to attend your school, unless, of course, the person is an athlete, in which case you can't recruit them?"

Many people seem to think it is easy to separate recruiting for students generally and recruiting for athletes. Guess what - it isn't. How do you separate the two? Ban informational presentations about the private schools in low income or minority neighborhoods? Ban print/tv advertising that might fall into the hands of a kid with athletic skills? Keep private schools from giving scholarships to needy kids that can't afford the tuition? Ban billboards advertising certain schools because an athlete might see them? Tell those distributing fliers to refrain from passing them out to minorities or kids that look "athletic"?

If a private school did zero recruiting for students, it would have a hard time filling its open slots and would end up closing.

[BostonWu]

If a private school did zero recruiting for students, it would have a hard time filling its open slots and would end up closing.

I can assure that is not the case with Wichita Catholic schools which are busting at the seems and have long waiting lines.