KSHSAA is officially falling off the stupid bus...

[SHOCKvalue]

http://www.kansas.com/2010/03/26/1242039/private-school-teams-may-face.html

Obama would be proud. Simple logic and reason be damned. "Equality" through deduction.

[SubGod22]

I sure as hell hope this doesn't happen.

[RoyalShock]

I believe both of those proposals are done in various other states, and it does make some sense as long as the private schools don't receive criticism for "recruiting", since that is the primary purpose for changing their classification.

Although I had to laugh at this:

"We have only about 300 students, and now we're competing against schools that have 900?" said Trinity headmaster/principal Matt Brewer. "We can't play football against Hutchinson. We'd be putting kids at risk."

Putting kids at risk? Because they are playing Hutch in football? Cry me a freaking river. If you're so worried about putting your kids at risk, drop your football program.

[shoxlax]

Or pull out of the KSHAA and play as many games as they want, where they want and start the season when they want.

[SubGod22]

Or pull out of the KSHAA and play as many games as they want, where they want and start the season when they want.

You know what, if enough of them decided to band together and do that they'd probably get even more of the good athletes that some of the public schools are complaining about. I know a lot of people aren't thrilled with the limitations that KSHSAA has put on games played and even travel out of state. Being able to play more games and maybe get more publicity by playing in some other tournaments would be attractive to kids looking for D1 scholarships. At least from a basketball standpoint I could see it working that way.

[SHOCKvalue]

I believe both of those proposals are done in various other states, and it does make some sense as long as the private schools don't receive criticism for "recruiting", since that is the primary purpose for changing their classification.

Although I had to laugh at this:

"We have only about 300 students, and now we're competing against schools that have 900?" said Trinity headmaster/principal Matt Brewer. "We can't play football against Hutchinson. We'd be putting kids at risk."

Putting kids at risk? Because they are playing Hutch in football? Cry me a freaking river. If you're so worried about putting your kids at risk, drop your football program.

Well, if recruiting is the main thrust of this proposal, then it's severely off-base. I went to one of the private schools mentioned in that article, and I can guarantee you two things- we didn't recruit in any capacity whatsoever, and our athletic budget would be absolutely dwarfed by our public school class equivalent (as would the overall per capita academic budget as well).

None of this is even taking into account the general demographic of the larger public schools. There's a reason why KU basketball, Texas football, etc. are loaded up with large public high school products. Let's just say dorky, studious, upper-middle class white kids aren't represented at quite the same level.

Considering your general libertarian slant, I'm a little miffed that you would defend this proposal.

[shockmonster]

This is an emotional issue and some of you seem to know a lot about it. My information is about five years old but I used to know a former school administrator at Collegiate and they talked about the diversity scholarships that Collegiate offered to minority students at the school to improve the education at the school for their other students. They laughingly talked about these students being competing athletes at the school. That would probably not be considered fair by most people.

Additionally, I used to hear rumors about other private schools like KMC that I would be less confident about repeating.

[SubGod22]

I don't think anybody would say that there is zero recruiting that goes on in some cases but this step that KSHSAA is taking is ridiculous. I've officiated enough of the private schools to know that they don't all have superior talent and making them play up a class is absolutely ridiculous. Should we do something with Heights since they seem to dominate? I have nothing against public or private schools but trying to seperate them doesn't do either any good.

[RoyalShock]

I believe both of those proposals are done in various other states, and it does make some sense as long as the private schools don't receive criticism for "recruiting", since that is the primary purpose for changing their classification.

Although I had to laugh at this:

"We have only about 300 students, and now we're competing against schools that have 900?" said Trinity headmaster/principal Matt Brewer. "We can't play football against Hutchinson. We'd be putting kids at risk."

Putting kids at risk? Because they are playing Hutch in football? Cry me a freaking river. If you're so worried about putting your kids at risk, drop your football program.

Well, if recruiting is the main thrust of this proposal, then it's severely off-base. I went to one of the private schools mentioned in that article, and I can guarantee you two things- we didn't recruit in any capacity whatsoever, and our athletic budget would be absolutely dwarfed by our public school class equivalent (as would the overall per capita academic budget as well).

None of this is even taking into account the general demographic of the larger public schools. There's a reason why KU basketball, Texas football, etc. are loaded up with large public high school products. Let's just say dorky, studious, upper-middle class white kids aren't represented at quite the same level.

Considering your general libertarian slant, I'm a little miffed that you would defend this proposal.

Here is what I think.

If recruiting is going on or scholarships are being given to athletes by any KSHSAA member school (and it can be proven), and such activities are expressly forbidden, then the school needs to be punished or expelled from the association.

If the KSHSAA is going to alter the classifications of private schools due to some arbitrarily defined "advantage", then those schools should be allowed to recruit and give out scholarships to athletes.

If private schools are allowed to play by a different set of rules, then the competitive field should be leveled.

[SHOCKvalue]

In auto racing (and no, not the rednecks driving in a circle that I use as satire), higher performing cars or teams are often saddled with additional weighting called ballast. The point of ballast is an attempt to level the playing field come race time. The exact amount of ballast incurred is a product of formulas or charts based off of past performance.

Realitically, why couldn't the KSHSAA establish some sort of "ballast" system, using a well-thought out formula based - again - off of historical past performance. If ANY school - private or public - dominates a certain sport in a certain classification in the long-term, then why not bump them up to the next level. Am I the only person that makes sense to? It's worlds better than this crybaby, victim, one-size-fits-all crap coming out of the KSHSAA right now.

[Awesome Sauce Malone]

This totally explains it. Myron Regier must be drinking again.

[RoyalShock]

Ricky, that's not a bad idea.

As this issue keeps bouncing around in my head I have more thoughts.

What I think is happening here is that some believe that while they can't prove it, there's too much recruitin' goin' on in them thar private schools! (And we can be reasonably sure one somewhat recent public city league coach did a fair bit of this).

There is also the perception (and perhaps an accurate one) that private schools tend to accumulate more privileged kids who, due to money and better parenting are more likely to be better competitive athletes. So private schools end up having a higher concentration of these kids. Some parents may also send their kids to a school that has a successful program in their kid's chosen sport(s). Topeka Hayden football comes to mind.

But there are also a fair number of counter-examples to the private school dominance claims. City league basketball in 6A. Hutchinson football in 5A. Andale football in 4A. And those are just current situations. I remember Moundridge and Chapparral dominating in girls basketball not so long ago. Salina schools in 5A football. Liberal in 5A track & field. The "country club" sports like golf and tennis are probably always going to be prone to private school dominance.

That said, there are other considerations. Geographically close districts often have students that live in one district, but attend an adjacent one. I know this happens a lot in Hutch, with the Buhler, Nickerson and Haven districts extending into Hutch city limits. Of course, that only happens for academic, geographic and social reasons (wink, wink).

If the KSHSAA is going to target private schools, they need to address the cross-district attendance issue. Either apply a multiplier or add-on for every out-of-district student that competes in athletics to that school's official attendance for classification purposes (this would have to apply to the following year's classification). Or simply disallow inter-scholastic competition for out-of-district students.

[SHOCKvalue]

It scary. It's like we're all agreeing that a system similar to the BCS is accepatble for KSHSAA activities.

Whodathunkit.

[ShockBand]

If there are provable violations, investigate them, and if true, penalize the schools. Otherwise...

Just. Get. Better.

This isn't the Lake Wobegon Elementary Field Day where everyone is above average and everyone wins.

[SHOCKvalue]

If there are provable violations, investigate them, and if true, penalize the schools. Otherwise...

Just. Get. Better.

This isn't the Lake Wobegon Elementary Field Day where everyone is above average and everyone wins.

LOL! Well they DO have a high school hockey team in Lake Wobegon that would for sure embarrass ours, if we had one.