KSHSAA is officially falling off the stupid bus...

[shockmonster]

Some of you act like this is the only state where this is an issue. Many states have a separate classification for private schools. While I wouldn't think that Kansas is exactly like Missouri, South Carolina or Texas, etc., I would venture a guess that the belief that there is an unfair advantage for some of these schools is the reason for it. In Missouri, I think they made them move up a classification to compete against larger schools while other states (like South Carolina and Texas) made a separate classification for all private schools. This is quite common in the U.S.

[ShockerFever]

If you can't beat em, separate em.. :roll:

Sad.

[ABC]

Private schools can and do recruit. Maurice Evans and DeAngelo Evans at Collegiate? Please.

But I see no reason to change the classification.

It's just part of life.

[wsushox1]

I was just coming in here to start a topic about this. I have been getting in the gym from 5-8 most nights since the season has gotten over in addition to track practice. You just have to get better. There is no excuses if the private schools just work harder than you.


I have hear that the private schools recruit but if there is no concrete evidence than get in the gym and get in the weight room to get better.


In OK they make private schools play up a division. It really is not that big of a deal considering Collegiate is on the verge of 4A anyways.


Just a few thoughts of mine. I am sure I have more.

[shockmonster]

There is proof that they recruit. They just call it a diversity scholarship. Wake up and smell the coffee. What do you want? I don't really care and am not directly affected by the cheating, but I don't like the double talk from some on this thread. It's not just a matter of getting into the gym. It's a matter of bending rules to benefit a special interests who happen to have money.

[XManCometh]

I believe both of those proposals are done in various other states, and it does make some sense as long as the private schools don't receive criticism for "recruiting", since that is the primary purpose for changing their classification.

Although I had to laugh at this:

"We have only about 300 students, and now we're competing against schools that have 900?" said Trinity headmaster/principal Matt Brewer. "We can't play football against Hutchinson. We'd be putting kids at risk."

Putting kids at risk? Because they are playing Hutch in football? Cry me a freaking river. If you're so worried about putting your kids at risk, drop your football program.

Give me 800 high school males from Hutch (1600 enrollment for the school) and I'll give you 150 from Trinity (200-300ish). I'll pick my biggest and baddest 75 males and you can do the same. I'm almost certain mine will be bigger and more athletic since I have more people to choose from. In Kansas high school football terms, Hutch playing Trinity is like Oklahoma playing Friends. Putting a Friends freshman lineman against Gerald McCoy from OU would be putting that kid at risk of serious injury. That's why we have classes.

---------

Private schools do a little recruiting, but not enough to make it an epidemic. I went to high school in the Topeka area and we all knew that Hayden recruited some of the athletes but we were a 6A school and routinely beat up on them in conference. It's not that big of a deal, but the KSHSAA is driven to make the high school sports in this state "everyone has a chance to win" instead of "The best win and kids need to learn that life isn't fair and sometimes, if you're not good enough, you lose and don't have a chance to win a title". 2-16 teams shouldn't be in the state tournament and they shouldn't have a chance to be in it. It takes away from the teams that do well in the regular season. A "winner takes all" sub-state format is pure stupidity. Almost as stupid as "Conference Tourny Auto-Bid's" in the NCAA.

[shocklight]

This whole thing is just crazy.

If there are recruiting violations then expose them. If they can't be proven, then work harder to prove them. If you still can't prove them, then maybe they aren't violations.

If you all think that recruiting doesn't happen more with the public schools than the private schools, then you are living in some bubble.

Why was West High such a football power until their coach left for another high school. Now they struggle. Yet NW has a top notch football program. Same thing at Heights. Eck at South, had all the best players in the city. Southeast (back in the day) for football.

But to some the answer is divide the private schools and then all will be fair...........please.

Pot meet Kettle, Kettle meet pot.

Royal I don't mean to call you out, but I know you to be a big Buhler fan. Based on the size of Buhler how is it they are such a powerhouse in football? Also, since you live in the area, how do you make the comment about Hutch Trinity? You know far more than most shockernetters that the athletes at both schools are not even close.

My bottom line on this is, if there are recruiting violations, no matter if it is public schools or private schools, then punish those schools. But to single out private schools suggests that private schools are the only violators. I believe it happens more in the public schools than the private schools.

IMHO!

[rZ]

Why was West High such a football power until their coach left for another high school. Now they struggle. Yet NW has a top notch football program.

I graduated from West in the late 90's, just before Schartz left for NW. I had a number of classes with a student who was "recruited" to play football. During football season he "lived" at his grandmothers house, which happened to be in West's district. The rest of the season he lived at his mothers house. He would begin each school year at West, and as soon as football was over he would "move back in" with his mother and attend Southeast High. The only reason he did this is because the football staff at West visited him and let him know it was an option.

[RoyalShock]

Royal I don't mean to call you out, but I know you to be a big Buhler fan. Based on the size of Buhler how is it they are such a powerhouse in football? Also, since you live in the area, how do you make the comment about Hutch Trinity? You know far more than most shockernetters that the athletes at both schools are not even close.

I'm not quite sure exactly what you are asking, but I'll address what I think you are bringing up.

I didn't make any comments about Hutch Trinity. I made a comment about a 4A school (Wichita Trinity) worrying about playing up one class and playing Hutch. I still don't think that is "putting kids at risk". We're not talking about putting their freshman up against Hutch's varsity.

I wouldn't call Buhler a powerhouse. Last year we made it to the 4A semi-finals and that's as far as they've gone since 1991. But the program is improving because the coach has put in a system that goes clear down to the 3rd grade level, kids are going to camps and getting into the weight room. And it helps that none of them are going to Hutch.

This year Buhler had two "transfers". One of them's dad has lived in Buhler for years. The other came from Sterling. As far as I know, there aren't any Buhler-Hutch football "transfers". But there was a few years ago, particularly when their starting QB (signed with Air Force) and running back transfered from Buhler to Hutch. One of them I know was for football only, the other was for social reasons (or at least that was plausible in his case).

Buhler's size is due to Hutch giving up the areas around the outside of the city to area districts back in the 50s. Buhler and Nickerson-South Hutch districts extend well inside Hutch city limits. I'm not sure about Haven but I know they get right up to the city limits. That proximity makes it easy for kids to transfer to one of the adjacent districts.

In a previous post I said that if the KSHSAA is going to target private schools, they need to address out-of-district athletes, as well.

[shocklight]

Royal I don't mean to call you out, but I know you to be a big Buhler fan. Based on the size of Buhler how is it they are such a powerhouse in football? Also, since you live in the area, how do you make the comment about Hutch Trinity? You know far more than most shockernetters that the athletes at both schools are not even close.

I'm not quite sure exactly what you are asking, but I'll address what I think you are bringing up.

I didn't make any comments about Hutch Trinity. I made a comment about a 4A school (Wichita Trinity) worrying about playing up one class and playing Hutch. I still don't think that is "putting kids at risk". We're not talking about putting their freshman up against Hutch's varsity.

I wouldn't call Buhler a powerhouse. Last year we made it to the 4A semi-finals and that's as far as they've gone since 1991. But the program is improving because the coach has put in a system that goes clear down to the 3rd grade level, kids are going to camps and getting into the weight room. And it helps that none of them are going to Hutch.

This year Buhler had two "transfers". One of them's dad has lived in Buhler for years. The other came from Sterling. As far as I know, there aren't any Buhler-Hutch football "transfers". But there was a few years ago, particularly when their starting QB (signed with Air Force) and running back transfered from Buhler to Hutch. One of them I know was for football only, the other was for social reasons (or at least that was plausible in his case).

Buhler's size is due to Hutch giving up the areas around the outside of the city to area districts back in the 50s. Buhler and Nickerson-South Hutch districts extend well inside Hutch city limits. I'm not sure about Haven but I know they get right up to the city limits. That proximity makes it easy for kids to transfer to one of the adjacent districts.

In a previous post I said that if the KSHSAA is going to target private schools, they need to address out-of-district athletes, as well.

Royal, my bad.......I thought you were talking about Hutch Trinity. However, I don't think there is much difference between the two schools.

I agree with you 100% about KSHSAA needs to address out-of-district athletes, if they are going to go after private schools. This in my opinion is the larger problem.

[SHOCKvalue]

Royal, my bad.......I thought you were talking about Hutch Trinity. However, I don't think there is much difference between the two schools.

I agree with you 100% about KSHSAA needs to address out-of-district athletes, if they are going to go after private schools. This in my opinion is the larger problem.

Hutch Trinity is barely a 2A. Maybe they aren't even that anymore, I don't know.

Wichita Trinity is a solid 4A.

That's a pretty big diff, at least IMO.

[SubGod22]

Trinity is on the lower end of 4A. The bottom 20. The lowest 5A school has nearly 300 more students.

As far as out of district students go, I know Circle accepts a number of them but I can't recall any being athletes. But I'm not sure exactly where the Oil Hill/El Dorado line is drawn either.

Hutch Trinity has about 125 or so less than Wichita Trinity. For whatever that's worth.

[NCAABound]

If the private schools are smart...they'd WANT to separate and create their own association (not affiliated with the KSHSAA). Then they could really recruit, play who/when/where they want, etc. Gary Musselman and gang do nothing but hamper high school athletics in this state.

[vbird53]

Fewer districts might be an answer. The article brought up a proposal for up to 11 state districts. That is not a good idea.

I agree with others: if recruiting (or any other cheating) is occuring, prove it, and punish the schools. By creating new districts or alignments or new sets of rules, the cheating will continue.

Another point already brought up: the private schools aren't the only ones cheating.

[RoyalShock]

4A range: 506-190
Wichita Trinity: 245

2A range: 120-77
Hutch Trinity: 116 (They were 3A last year)

So Wichita Trinity is over twice the size of Hutch Trinity.

One thing they need to do is add a classification to break up the huge disparity between the large and small 4A schools. The difference from the smallest to largest is 166%, by far the most of any class outside of 1A, where you have some very small enrollments.

http://www.kshsaa.org/Classifications09.pdf