Zimmerman lawyers

[WuDrWu]

A white homicide victim was killed by a black person about 9% of the time.
That gives an error of -28.57% from what we expect if there were no cultural or socioeconomic issues { the calculation for error is: (9 - 12.6)/12.6 * 100 }.

One could look at that and say, "Hmm, whites and blacks don't intermingle as much as the perfect colorless society we dreamed up." Or, "Blacks like whites better than we thought." Or, "Blacks are scared of spiders and white homes are often infested with spiders." Or any other crazy reason. There's nothing in that statistic that says there is a terrible cultural or socioeconomic crisis (even if the error is at -29%, the result undershoots which is a GOOD thing [there is no indication of racial tensions in the figure]).

But 638% OVER our expectation for black-on-black homicide?! There is only one conclusion that can be drawn: Terrible problem.

If you can't see that, you are uneducable. There really is nothing to argue about other than what is causing the crisis and how to solve the crisis. Because it is a crisis.

This is brilliant. It's a shame more people, especially those in the media and in power, don't have the guts to speak this kind of truth.

[WuDrWu]

And the crisis has been going on for over 30 years since these statistics came out, and long before that. And still there are no solutions. Or the solutions haven't worked. As soon as these statistics change and more black on white crimes start occurring, nothing will happen because it's a "their problem and doesn't affect us" mentality.

You've said some things over the years that make a normal person scratch their head, but we've broken new ground here.

"Nothing will happen because it's a 'their problem and doesn't affect us' mentality." ???? WTF?

I'm not exactly sure who "us" is...but if your implication is that white America hasn't done anything....I don't even know where to start. But how about TRILLIONS thrown at the problem with almost NO POSITIVE RESULTS. Listen to me....Nothing is going to happen until the leaders of the black community STOP their racist activities and STOP blaming everyone else for their problems. Their problems are cultivated at home in a culture of dependence on government and absolutely no personal accountability.

[1979Shocker]

I guess once things start to even out in the courts (where blacks get tougher sentences for the same crimes) and on the streets (where they are more likely to get stopped by police), then maybe things will start to get better. Oh, and the "us" is anyone not affected by black crime.

[Downtown Shocker Brown]

Ignorance at best. Would love to see those statistics.

Fact is that when you compare sentences handed down for any crime, and include ALL facts, there is a reason the sentences are longer is they have prior convictions, show no respect for the courts or society, or the level of crime committed.

[Downtown Shocker Brown]

And there is a reason more blacks get stopped: they commit more crimes. Thats not profiling, thats officers doing thier job.

[lostshocker]

From the same document (Table 1 on page 3):

Whites make up 82.9% of the population.
Blacks make up 12.6% of the population.
Others make up 4.4% of the population.

If each of these races had identical cultures and socioeconomic statuses and intermingled perfectly, then the percent of offenders by race would be reflected exactly by the population break down, and we should expect:


- A homicide victim should be killed by a white person about 82.9% of the time.
- A homicide victim should be killed by a black person about 12.6% of the time.

According to your number from this document:

- A white homicide victim was killed by a white person 84% of the time.
+ That gives a white-on-white error of 1.32% from what we expect if there were no cultural or socioeconomic issues { the calculation for error is: (84 - 82.9)/82.9 * 100 }.

- A black homicide victim was killed by a black person 93% of the time.
+ That gives a black-on-black error of 638% from what we expect if there were no cultural or socioeconomic issues { the calculation for the error is (93 - 12.6)/12.6 * 100 }.

That is so horrible that I had to verify the numbers and calculate it twice to believe it.

The seemingly innocuous statistic that you quoted actually proves that there is a very, very serious and disproportionate cultural and/or socioeconomic problem causing black-on-black crime in the black community.

how did you come up with this statistic exactly? are you saying that of the black homicide victims only approximately 15-20% should be killed by blacks to lower your error? and if that were the case then we'd have a helluva lot more whites killing blacks.

one thing that causes black on black crime in the black community, there arent many whites in the black community for them to commit crimes on. same goes with predominantly white communities, hispanic communities, asian communities and so on and so forth. now, i am not saying there isnt a major issue that doesnt need fixed, just pointing out that there is a bigger flaw in your calculations.

[lostshocker]

to illustrate the flaw in the math, we will use the "others" category.

if just 50% of the "others" homicides were "others" on "others" the math would be over 1000%.

(50-4.4)/4.4*100

now let's bump that percentage up to around the equivalent of white on white homicide

(84-4.4)/4.4*100 = 1809%

[pinstripers]

http://themartialist.net/?p=306

story of black neighborhood watchman, kills a white punk, gets acquitted.......good

[WuDrWu]

one thing that causes black on black crime in the black community, there arent many whites in the black community for them to commit crimes on. same goes with predominantly white communities, hispanic communities, asian communities and so on and so forth. now, i am not saying there isnt a major issue that doesnt need fixed, just pointing out that there is a bigger flaw in your calculations.

I'm sorry....did you really just say CAUSES? How about you re-think that and try again. While you're at it, capitalization and punctuation would be welcome.

[lostshocker]

I'm sorry....did you really just say CAUSES? How about you re-think that and try again. While you're at it, capitalization and punctuation would be welcome.

Wow, just wow. I could give a rat's ass about capitalization and punctuation on a message board, but just for you I will make an exception. I see you conveniently overlooked the point I was making. That's okay though. After seeing you agree with the mistaken numbers, one can see where you lean on this whole subject. So I will now take leave of this thread and let the more racially motivated people ***** and moan.

[1979Shocker]

And there is a reason more blacks get stopped: they commit more crimes. Thats not profiling, thats officers doing thier job.

They shouldn't get stopped if they haven't done anything.

My best black friend was stopped one night in northeast Wichita by a police officer for no reason about 10-15 years ago. There's no telling what would have happened to her if her 5-year old nephew hadn't been sitting in the back seat. It might have seemed like nothing was wrong because occasionally the police have to stop people when they're looking for someone, especially in the northeast part of town. But this officer wasn't looking for anyone. He ended up giving her a ticket. I don't remember what she said the ticket was for. It might have been because he said her music (church music) was too loud. If that was the case, he shouldn't have forced her out of her car with her hands in the air and his hand on his gun ready to use it.

And what makes it worse, this officer, who was at least 6'4", standing over her petite body, threatened to shoot if she moved and then said to her, "you're not part of the human race". If someone has had something like this happen to them, I'd like to hear it so we can share notes.

And this isn't even all that has happened to her. There was the time one night, again around 10-15 years ago, that she was leaving her mother's house in northeast Wichita to go back to her apartment (in south Wichita). She stopped at a Quiktrip to get a pop and when she was getting ready to leave, was blocked in by two or three police cars. She called me to let me know what was going on. Now, maybe they thought she was a suspect in some crime. It was late (after midnight) and most citizens are home in bed, unless they're just getting off work or heading home from their mother's house. Except in this case I believe it was on a weekend. Now maybe after seeing that she wasn't the suspect they were looking for (if they were actually looking for anyone), they could have just told her to be on her way. But they didn't. They started taunting her and calling her names, saying, "how many tickets should we give you this time?" Evidently, they knew her from other officers as they called her by her first name. They ended up writing her up for three tickets.

These are just two of many times she has been stopped for no reason. And each time she has been given a ticket. Like the time she was given a ticket for having an expired tag when the tag wasn't set to expire until the end of the month. Maybe that officer was having a bad day, because after giving her the ticket, he slapped her car door shut so hard that it will no longer shut properly.

She's an outspoken woman, so when she started getting all these tickets and kept being harassed, she started going down to City Hall to ask why all this has been happening to her when she hasn't done anything wrong. Eventually, either because they got tired of her coming down there all the time, or for whatever reason, she was able to get an appointment with the Chief of Police and a couple other detectives to go over what she considered was unnecessary harassment. They asked her for a number where she could be reached in case the date and time of the meeting needed to be changed. She gave them her cell phone number. She asked me to come to the appointment and also one of her nephews. Giving her cell phone number to the them might have been the worse thing that could have happened, because things just got worse.

The day of the appointment, I just arrived at the meeting location at City Hall. Her nephew was also there. She was running late. I got a call from her and she tells me she just got this anonymous call from some man telling her she better not show up for this meeting, Then as she's parking and heading to the City building, this same person calls and says, "I see you're running a little late." Evidently, whoever this person is, he can see her from an office window. I can't remember if she mentioned this call at the meeting or not. I don't think she did. Or if she did, they just ignored it.

After the meeting she continued getting these harassing anonymous phone calls over the next few weeks. After the original call, I told her she needed to start recording the calls. She got one of those voice-activated recorders and was able to record some of the calls.

A lot of the calls were very graphic. You would think we were still leaving in the time of the slaves with the kind of language that person was using. This person, whoever he was, told her that "Ni****rs like you that mess with the WPD hang in trees."

Now there's no way to determine if this anonymous caller was part of the WPD or someone on the WPD knew him, or how he got her cell phone number. But what we do know is that this didn't start happening until she gave her cell phone number to the Wichita police. Now she couldn't go to her cell phone provider to ask them where these anonymous calls were originating. Only the Wichita police were allowed to do that, and then only after a court order. If one of their own officers was behind these calls, then she couldn't even do that, because who would you trust?

I've known her for nearly 30 years and I can tell you right now that she wouldn't hurt a fly. These incidents have shown me a part of Wichita I never knew existed.

Okay, sorry for this being so long and drawn out. I just had to let everyone know that what you see happening is not as simple as it seems. I'm not saying that all police in Wichita are this way, but there are definitely some that don't like some people and you're never going to change them. There are a lot of other things I could mention that I've found out that I really had no idea was happening, but I'll let them go for another time.

[KC Shox]

They shouldn't get stopped if they haven't done anything.

My best black friend was stopped one night in northeast Wichita by a police officer for no reason about 10-15 years ago. There's no telling what would have happened to her if her 5-year old nephew hadn't been sitting in the back seat. It might have seemed like nothing was wrong because occasionally the police have to stop people when they're looking for someone, especially in the northeast part of town. But this officer wasn't looking for anyone. He ended up giving her a ticket. I don't remember what she said the ticket was for. It might have been because he said her music (church music) was too loud. If that was the case, he shouldn't have forced her out of her car with her hands in the air and his hand on his gun ready to use it.

And what makes it worse, this officer, who was at least 6'4", standing over her petite body, threatened to shoot if she moved and then said to her, "you're not part of the human race". If someone has had something like this happen to them, I'd like to hear it so we can share notes.

And this isn't even all that has happened to her. There was the time one night, again around 10-15 years ago, that she was leaving her mother's house in northeast Wichita to go back to her apartment (in south Wichita). She stopped at a Quiktrip to get a pop and when she was getting ready to leave, was blocked in by two or three police cars. She called me to let me know what was going on. Now, maybe they thought she was a suspect in some crime. It was late (after midnight) and most citizens are home in bed, unless they're just getting off work or heading home from their mother's house. Except in this case I believe it was on a weekend. Now maybe after seeing that she wasn't the suspect they were looking for (if they were actually looking for anyone), they could have just told her to be on her way. But they didn't. They started taunting her and calling her names, saying, "how many tickets should we give you this time?" Evidently, they knew her from other officers as they called her by her first name. They ended up writing her up for three tickets.

These are just two of many times she has been stopped for no reason. And each time she has been given a ticket. Like the time she was given a ticket for having an expired tag when the tag wasn't set to expire until the end of the month. Maybe that officer was having a bad day, because after giving her the ticket, he slapped her car door shut so hard that it will no longer shut properly.

She's an outspoken woman, so when she started getting all these tickets and kept being harassed, she started going down to City Hall to ask why all this has been happening to her when she hasn't done anything wrong. Eventually, either because they got tired of her coming down there all the time, or for whatever reason, she was able to get an appointment with the Chief of Police and a couple other detectives to go over what she considered was unnecessary harassment. They asked her for a number where she could be reached in case the date and time of the meeting needed to be changed. She gave them her cell phone number. She asked me to come to the appointment and also one of her nephews. Giving her cell phone number to the them might have been the worse thing that could have happened, because things just got worse.

The day of the appointment, I just arrived at the meeting location at City Hall. Her nephew was also there. She was running late. I got a call from her and she tells me she just got this anonymous call from some man telling her she better not show up for this meeting, Then as she's parking and heading to the City building, this same person calls and says, "I see you're running a little late." Evidently, whoever this person is, he can see her from an office window. I can't remember if she mentioned this call at the meeting or not. I don't think she did. Or if she did, they just ignored it.

After the meeting she continued getting these harassing anonymous phone calls over the next few weeks. After the original call, I told her she needed to start recording the calls. She got one of those voice-activated recorders and was able to record some of the calls.

A lot of the calls were very graphic. You would think we were still leaving in the time of the slaves with the kind of language that person was using. This person, whoever he was, told her that "Ni****rs like you that mess with the WPD hang in trees."

Now there's no way to determine if this anonymous caller was part of the WPD or someone on the WPD knew him, or how he got her cell phone number. But what we do know is that this didn't start happening until she gave her cell phone number to the Wichita police. Now she couldn't go to her cell phone provider to ask them where these anonymous calls were originating. Only the Wichita police were allowed to do that, and then only after a court order. If one of their own officers was behind these calls, then she couldn't even do that, because who would you trust?

I've known her for nearly 30 years and I can tell you right now that she wouldn't hurt a fly. These incidents have shown me a part of Wichita I never knew existed.

Okay, sorry for this being so long and drawn out. I just had to let everyone know that what you see happening is not as simple as it seems. I'm not saying that all police in Wichita are this way, but there are definitely some that don't like some people and you're never going to change them. There are a lot of other things I could mention that I've found out that I really had no idea was happening, but I'll let them go for another time.

Are their bad cops out there? Yep. Does profiling exist? I would say so - committed by those ignorant cops who let the badge go to their head. However, as a former patrol officer I am compelled to share a couple of stories with you of what we have to always worry about - false claims of profiling, racial remarks and police brutality.

After the academy and completing my field training, one key piece of advice I received by several veteran cops was to purchase a micro recorder that would fit in my shirt pocket. This was during the late 90's when the WPD did not have dash cams in their cars or supplied their officers with recorders.

True story, observed a black woman driving not maintaining a single lane. I subsequently turned on my emergency lights to perform a car stop. She did not respond and refused to pull over. She was not speeding or trying to evade me. She drove an additional mile and turned into a neighborhood at 13th and Oliver. It became clear she was driving to her home. She finally stopped in her driveway and tried to run in her home where I gave a short foot chase and detained her. She smelled of alcohol and Mary Jane. I took her to jail for DUI.

Two days later, my supervisor calls me into his office stating he received a citizen complaint claiming that I was using the 'N' word toward her along with other racial put downs. Turned out to be the lady whom I arrested two days earlier. I pulled out my recorder, played him the car stop and he heard that no racial remarks were made by me during the entire 2 1/2 car stop and processing at the jail. He called the citizen to speak with her while I was in his office and placed the conversation on speaker phone for me to hear. He asked her to describe the incident to him where she again stated I called her a 'N' word and other racial remarks. After she was done, he explained that I had recorded the entire car stop and would be happy to have her listen to the entire recording. She abruptly hung up the phone and I was cleared of any wrong doing.

However, had I not had a recorder in my pocket, this would certainly have been noted in my personnel file. This happened to me twice during my three years on the street and was a frequent complaint received across the board. Just wanted to throw that out there as I felt compelled to tell it how it is and cops deal with a lot of B.S.

[MoValley John]

They shouldn't get stopped if they haven't done anything.

My best black friend was stopped one night in northeast Wichita by a police officer for no reason about 10-15 years ago. There's no telling what would have happened to her if her 5-year old nephew hadn't been sitting in the back seat. It might have seemed like nothing was wrong because occasionally the police have to stop people when they're looking for someone, especially in the northeast part of town. But this officer wasn't looking for anyone. He ended up giving her a ticket. I don't remember what she said the ticket was for. It might have been because he said her music (church music) was too loud. If that was the case, he shouldn't have forced her out of her car with her hands in the air and his hand on his gun ready to use it.

And what makes it worse, this officer, who was at least 6'4", standing over her petite body, threatened to shoot if she moved and then said to her, "you're not part of the human race". If someone has had something like this happen to them, I'd like to hear it so we can share notes.

And this isn't even all that has happened to her. There was the time one night, again around 10-15 years ago, that she was leaving her mother's house in northeast Wichita to go back to her apartment (in south Wichita). She stopped at a Quiktrip to get a pop and when she was getting ready to leave, was blocked in by two or three police cars. She called me to let me know what was going on. Now, maybe they thought she was a suspect in some crime. It was late (after midnight) and most citizens are home in bed, unless they're just getting off work or heading home from their mother's house. Except in this case I believe it was on a weekend. Now maybe after seeing that she wasn't the suspect they were looking for (if they were actually looking for anyone), they could have just told her to be on her way. But they didn't. They started taunting her and calling her names, saying, "how many tickets should we give you this time?" Evidently, they knew her from other officers as they called her by her first name. They ended up writing her up for three tickets.

These are just two of many times she has been stopped for no reason. And each time she has been given a ticket. Like the time she was given a ticket for having an expired tag when the tag wasn't set to expire until the end of the month. Maybe that officer was having a bad day, because after giving her the ticket, he slapped her car door shut so hard that it will no longer shut properly.

She's an outspoken woman, so when she started getting all these tickets and kept being harassed, she started going down to City Hall to ask why all this has been happening to her when she hasn't done anything wrong. Eventually, either because they got tired of her coming down there all the time, or for whatever reason, she was able to get an appointment with the Chief of Police and a couple other detectives to go over what she considered was unnecessary harassment. They asked her for a number where she could be reached in case the date and time of the meeting needed to be changed. She gave them her cell phone number. She asked me to come to the appointment and also one of her nephews. Giving her cell phone number to the them might have been the worse thing that could have happened, because things just got worse.

The day of the appointment, I just arrived at the meeting location at City Hall. Her nephew was also there. She was running late. I got a call from her and she tells me she just got this anonymous call from some man telling her she better not show up for this meeting, Then as she's parking and heading to the City building, this same person calls and says, "I see you're running a little late." Evidently, whoever this person is, he can see her from an office window. I can't remember if she mentioned this call at the meeting or not. I don't think she did. Or if she did, they just ignored it.

After the meeting she continued getting these harassing anonymous phone calls over the next few weeks. After the original call, I told her she needed to start recording the calls. She got one of those voice-activated recorders and was able to record some of the calls.

A lot of the calls were very graphic. You would think we were still leaving in the time of the slaves with the kind of language that person was using. This person, whoever he was, told her that "Ni****rs like you that mess with the WPD hang in trees."

Now there's no way to determine if this anonymous caller was part of the WPD or someone on the WPD knew him, or how he got her cell phone number. But what we do know is that this didn't start happening until she gave her cell phone number to the Wichita police. Now she couldn't go to her cell phone provider to ask them where these anonymous calls were originating. Only the Wichita police were allowed to do that, and then only after a court order. If one of their own officers was behind these calls, then she couldn't even do that, because who would you trust?

I've known her for nearly 30 years and I can tell you right now that she wouldn't hurt a fly. These incidents have shown me a part of Wichita I never knew existed.

Okay, sorry for this being so long and drawn out. I just had to let everyone know that what you see happening is not as simple as it seems. I'm not saying that all police in Wichita are this way, but there are definitely some that don't like some people and you're never going to change them. There are a lot of other things I could mention that I've found out that I really had no idea was happening, but I'll let them go for another time.

I call bullshit! Not that profiling doesn't exist, it does, but much of the rest of it. The cellphone story is all bullshit, caller id came out before your timeframe, in fact, ten years ago, was about the time unlimited plans came out. During that timeframe, your cellphone bill came with a detail of every call, including duration and phone number. You can still track every phone call made or received on your cellphone, just log on to your service provider's website, pull up your billing and look at all calls made or received. Your friend was not barred from tracking calls, it is a big lie.

Once again, I call bullshit.

[1979Shocker]

I call bullshit! Not that profiling doesn't exist, it does, but much of the rest of it. The cellphone story is all bullshit, caller id came out before your timeframe, in fact, ten years ago, was about the time unlimited plans came out. During that timeframe, your cellphone bill came with a detail of every call, including duration and phone number. You can still track every phone call made or received on your cellphone, just log on to your service provider's website, pull up your billing and look at all calls made or received. Your friend was not barred from tracking calls, it is a big lie.

Once again, I call bullshit.

*67 blocks incoming numbers. At least it did back then. If you saying that she could have found out who was calling anonymously by looking at her phone bill, the phone bill didn't show the number. I don't remember what was in place of the number, either *** ***-**** or "no number", or something else. I'll have to look at it the next time I'm in town. I'm pretty sure she has it still. She keeps everything. Maybe she could have had it tracked, but that's something she just didn't do or didn't know how to do. The cell phone provider told her they could get the number out of their records, but they'd have to have a court order from law enforcement. But like I said previously, she didn't trust them.

Or, if you're saying the cell phone story was made up by her, you'd be wrong. I've heard some of the recordings. And to throw this out there, in the last couple of years she has been taking some polygraph examinations. I took her to Dallas to take a couple and she took one in St. Louis and another one in Austin. (Incidentally, the examiner she went to in Austin is supposed to be one of the top examiners in Texas.) I think the one in St. Louis is the one where they asked her if someone had called her anonymously and threatened her. She told me later that this examiner was embarrassed to repeat what she told him she heard from the anonymous caller. So during the question phase of the exam, he used different wording to ask that question. The results that came back from this and all the other exams showed that there was no deception on her part.

[wu_shizzle]

Awesome commentary on Martin/Zimmerman, that it's from an actor and on the Huffington Post is mind-blowing: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/romany...b_3612231.html