Zimmerman lawyers

[MoValley John]

Why the polygraph? Is she suing? If it was me, I'd sue. In fact, I'd already have the cash in hand! Seems like a lot of money on polygraphs. Why not use that money to hire a good lawyer who would have the phone records tomorrow.

Your whole story stinks. Sorry.

[MoValley John]

Maury Povich uses polygraphs a lot! Maybe your friend is going on the show!

[MoValley John]

Here is the tale of the tape. If any man, woman, child, boy or girl, black or white, really had their rights trampled on as wu_shizzle suggests, the litigation would have been completed in the plaintiffs favor years ago. There were witnesses at the QT, there are recordings, there are phone records, hell we have polygraphs! There seems to be a preponderance of evidence.

If 10‰ of what shizzle is saying is true, this case would already be decided. There are plenty of civil rights lawyers working Wichita, if she didn't find them, they would have already found her.

Yes, I call bullshit.

[Awesome Sauce Malone]

And there is a reason more blacks get stopped: they commit more crimes. Thats not profiling, thats officers doing thier job.

[1979Shocker]

Why the polygraph? Is she suing? If it was me, I'd sue. In fact, I'd already have the cash in hand! Seems like a lot of money on polygraphs. Why not use that money to hire a good lawyer who would have the phone records tomorrow.

Your whole story stinks. Sorry.

Yes, it's possible there will be an outcome this year. The City attorney has already offered, but her attorney thinks she can get a lot more. Yes, polygraphs are expensive, anywhere from $300-$500 per question.

Her attorney wants this to get wrapped up because he has bigger fish to fry, representing victims in a sex scandal, where he thinks he can get a lot more.

[SubGod22]

Boycott Florida? No surprise that Jesse Jackson is in support of it....

[Kung Wu]

how did you come up with this statistic exactly? are you saying that of the black homicide victims only approximately 15-20% should be killed by blacks to lower your error? and if that were the case then we'd have a helluva lot more whites killing blacks.

one thing that causes black on black crime in the black community, there arent many whites in the black community for them to commit crimes on. same goes with predominantly white communities, hispanic communities, asian communities and so on and so forth. now, i am not saying there isnt a major issue that doesnt need fixed, just pointing out that there is a bigger flaw in your calculations.

to illustrate the flaw in the math, we will use the "others" category.

if just 50% of the "others" homicides were "others" on "others" the math would be over 1000%.

(50-4.4)/4.4*100

now let's bump that percentage up to around the equivalent of white on white homicide

(84-4.4)/4.4*100 = 1809%

@lostshocker:,

With all due respect you have sorely misunderstood the equation for error calculation, as demonstrated by your second "example". That's probably because I failed to explain the variables, so I'll take the blame. The formula is:

(actual value - expected value)/expected value * 100

In your first example you are saying that 4.4% of the population committed 50% of the crime. That would indeed be a serious problem and the 1000% error number would call that out properly.

Your second example makes no sense what-so-ever, but it's probably not because you are bad at math, it's just that you misunderstood the formula. Now that I have clarified the formula hopefully you understand your flaw?

Here's an example with raw numbers.

Let's pretend we had a perfect utopian racial society that was completely desegregated where three different races took a 1,000 question lifestyle quiz and you couldn't tell them apart. That would be the perfect case scenario, correct? If you can't agree on what perfection looks like then we can stop right here, because there is nothing else to discuss.

Assuming you agree with the "ideal scenario" above, then let's expand on your first example.

Assume the population is (yes we are missing .1% due to rounding):

white: 82.9%
black: 12.6%
other: 4.4%

In the ideal world then about 4.4% of all homicide offenders would be of race "other". Also we would expect about 4.4% of all homicide victims to be of race "other".

In 2010 there were about 15,000 homicides. Of the 15,000 homicides we would expect 660 homicides to be committed by "other" and the victims to be "other". If instead we find that 7,500 of them (50% of the homicides by your example) were committed by "other" OR 7,500 of the victims of "other", then there would be a very serious social problem beyond any reasonable ability to explain away race. In other words we would HAVE to say there is a RACE component to the problem -- which means our perfect society isn't perfect anymore, and not even close.

The original math still appears to be as solid as when I originally wrote it. The real challenge then is, why are the results so out of whack from our perfect society example?

[wu_shizzle]

Here is the tale of the tape. If any man, woman, child, boy or girl, black or white, really had their rights trampled on as wu_shizzle suggests, the litigation would have been completed in the plaintiffs favor years ago. There were witnesses at the QT, there are recordings, there are phone records, hell we have polygraphs! There seems to be a preponderance of evidence.

If 10‰ of what shizzle is saying is true, this case would already be decided. There are plenty of civil rights lawyers working Wichita, if she didn't find them, they would have already found her.

Yes, I call bullshit.

You got the wrong guy, officer.

Which is kind of funny, given the topic at hand.

[ShockTalk]

Boycott Florida? No surprise that Jesse Jackson is in support of it....

Absolutely unbelievable. This is so wrong for so many reasons. Talk about penalizing the innocent, not to mention their own. Of course, if the object is to stir the pot vigorously, increase tensions, and widen the gap of reason on both sides, this would accomplish the mission. Such a poor event to take this kind of stance with.

[lostshocker]

@lostshocker:,

In the ideal world then about 4.4% of all homicide offenders would be of race "other". Also we would expect about 4.4% of all homicide victims to be of race "other".

In 2010 there were about 15,000 homicides. Of the 15,000 homicides we would expect 660 homicides to be committed by "other" and the victims to be "other". If instead we find that 7,500 of them (50% of the homicides by your example) were committed by "other" OR 7,500 of the victims of "other", then there would be a very serious social problem beyond any reasonable ability to explain away race. In other words we would HAVE to say there is a RACE component to the problem -- which means our perfect society isn't perfect anymore, and not even close.

The original math still appears to be as solid as when I originally wrote it. The real challenge then is, why are the results so out of whack from our perfect society example?

but you used percentages of homicide victims killed by offenders of the same race as the actual value.

- A white homicide victim was killed by a white person 84% of the time.
- A black homicide victim was killed by a black person 93% of the time.

you never gave total numbers of actual homicide victims. and you never gave "other killed by other" percentage hence the reason i used 50% then used the same figure as the "white" percentage.

for your 2010 example using the population percentages we should have
12435 white victims
1890 black victims
660 other victims
and with our missing .1% we are missing 15 victims.

now we apply our known percentages of homicides committed by whites on whites and blacks on blacks we get
12435*84%
1890*93%

what we actually need is a break down of homicide victims by race. then we could apply that to your formula and come of with the error.

and for the record, you and i just disagree on the math.

[SubGod22]

Absolutely unbelievable. This is so wrong for so many reasons. Talk about penalizing the innocent, not to mention their own. Of course, if the object is to stir the pot vigorously, increase tensions, and widen the gap of reason on both sides, this would accomplish the mission. Such a poor event to take this kind of stance with.

I wanted to say something similar to what you did but it wasn't coming out well in my head and was going to sound a lot worse than I meant for it to. So I thank you for saying it in a better way.

[SB Shock]

ACLU withdraws it demands that Zimmerman be prosecuted by federal government.

“The ACLU believes the Double Jeopardy Clause of the Constitution protects someone from being prosecuted in another court for charges arising from the same transaction. A jury found Zimmerman not guilty, and that should be the end of the criminal case,” she wrote.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2013/0...#ixzz2ZpcCiD1o

[rrshock]

Well the ACLU finally pulled their heads out. Can't preach protecting one set of rights and not the other.

[RoyalShock]

Boycott Florida? No surprise that Jesse Jackson is in support of it....

I've been boycotting Florida for some time, because it's half-full of morons and criminals. At least most other states are half-empty.

[MoValley John]

I've been boycotting Florida for some time, because it's half-full of morons and criminals. At least most other states are half-empty.

That is the exact same reason I began my boycott of MVC fans back in January! Never been happier!