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Originally posted by SHOCKvalue
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Very strange. It must just be a mindset thing passed down from generation to generation and a stubbornness to pull away from. I don't understand it. But it does seem like this city has it pouring through their veins. It's like they've never stepped a foot outside of it before. And honestly, probably most haven't. And that's probably another part of the problem.Deuces Valley.
... No really, deuces.
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"Enjoy the ride."
- a smart man -
People seem to think nice **** and big developments fall out of the sky. That's not how the real world works, especially in real estate. Like Trump, who they hate oh so much, it's all about making the deal happen.
From what I understand, from working in the industry, is that the city can by the land back, improvements and all, if the developers fail to meet certain timelines/expectations, at the same $1/acre. They wouldn't sell for this cheap without some damn good guarantees about the amount of money the investors/developers are going to put into this project.
Also, from what I know, (as I have avoided a lot of the reporting on this because the comments make me gag) they are partnering with a couple local development companies. People who have skin in the game in this community and have developed other areas in this town I am sure the complainers about this project happily use.
Assuming the project goes though and I believe it will, the city will generate more from taxes revenue, both sales and property, than they would make based on the current value of the land with nothing there. The city is basically trying to turn $4 into, well. a lot more than $4.The AssmanComment
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I dont't know what CAVE means, but I am a member of Gen X and I oppose this baseball deal. Let's get real, it is minor league baseball. Baseball is a dying sport and minor league baseball is not going to do a thing to improve Wichita. Wichita is being conned bigtime, many residents are so desperate for change that they are suckers for every two-bit huckster that comes along selling the latest version of snake oil. It is seriously pathetic for the Mayor and City Council to act this way for a minor league baseball team that will draw a tiny crowd. Most economists and think tanks like Cato Institute that have studied the impact of minor league baseball have concluded that it does not have a positive impact on economic activity. We should send the Baby Cakes packing in search of some other suckers to ripoff.Comment
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You lost me at CATO institute. That piece of crap ultra conservative poor excuse for a "think" tank is the epitome of CAVE. By the way, that means Citizens Against Virtually Everything, The CATO institute distorts reality and common sense in an attempt to discredit anything that might be socially worthwhile. Basically, if it doesn't line the pockets of some billionaire, CATO doesn't like it.
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Caver's unite...
"You Just Want to Slap The #### Outta Some People"Comment
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CAVE = Citizens Against Virtually EverythingOriginally posted by Scott View Post
Do you not shop, eat, or partake in any activities in Wichita?Comment
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Of course I shop, eat and do activities in Wichita. What does that have to do with a minor league baseball stadium? The city just gave away 4 acres of commercial property and received nothing except millions of dollars of future debt service payments in exchange. If the teams's numbers come up short (they always do), taxpayers are on the hook for millions more. I am not opposed to development, but this is just a dumb idea and no amount of public relations fluffing and spin is going to make it any better. The team owner that is scamming Wichita promised all this same stuff to the city that he is abandoning. Wichita is never going to improve if its leaders jump on every half baked plan tossed in their faces. This will end up like Waterwalk, Hyatt, etc.Originally posted by NCAABound View PostComment
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I'm with Scott. Let's not sell the land. Leave the grass and weeds alone and let them have a long and healthy life. Should've kept the 90 year old eyesore, I mean jewel, and polished it up with some Sherwin Williams and accept the fact that this city isn't above Amarillo, Texas and assume our fate with Wingnut baseball til the end.
I also agree with Scott that we should think small, bet small, act small, and emulate an eastern version of Dodge City. Accept the fact that Wichita is a shithole, will never improve as a shithole, and go spend our money on weekend excursions in Kansas City at the Cheesecake Factory.Deuces Valley.
... No really, deuces.
________________
"Enjoy the ride."
- a smart manComment
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"You Just Want to Slap The #### Outta Some People"Comment
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Hahaha. I know what Scott stands for... SCum Of This Town. It’s people like you that have hamstrung the grand ideas and visions in the past. People like you that have twisted the wrists of weaker city councils, and diminished what could have been great projects for the people of this city. It’s laughable you bring up WaterWalk as a failure of city leadership. Well it was, because they listened to people like YOU! What was once a promising and great vision was downsized and left to die because the CAVE crowd can’t stand the prospect of Wichita becoming great again. That makes me wonder, maybe the mayor should just start a campaign called Make Wichita Great Again, I’m sure you and all your CAVE buddies would jump onboard the train then.Originally posted by Scott View PostComment
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Has anyone been to Bricktown in Oklahoma City? I was down there not too long ago and it is a pretty nice area with a good vibe. Talking to someone who has lived and worked there for a major Oklahoma company, that area 30 years ago was a place you didn't want to be caught dead in after dark. Nobody walked to their cars alone kind of place. This individual stressed that it was a long process to turn that area into what it is today and that he looks at Wichita with hope that we will stay the course and push forward and grow our downtown and river area. This man has connections to this area and is considering moving here upon retirement as his wife has roots and business here.
Wichita needs to keep thinking and acting big and not expect change to happen overnight. There is a lot of work that can be done in a number of areas of this fair city. People need to be patient and let the process build. Progress will beget progress and growth will create more growth. More activities is a good thing. More dining options is a good thing. More entertainment is a good thing. More shopping is a good thing. More apartments are a good thing. This stadium will help spur some of this growth in this area. Triple A baseball is exciting. The talent that will come through this city will be fun to watch. Fans of the Royals, Cubs, Cardinals, Dodgers and others will get chances to see their future or rehabbing major league talent, and in the process they can make a day or evening out of it by heading down there early or staying late to enjoy what there is to offer.
Let us not also forget about what this brings to those who live in that area already and the benefit they will see with more opportunities nearby. People will travel from outside the metro area for games or events held there. I can recall a time when the Wranglers were still here that i went to the game with a number of people and ran into a decent contingent of supporters from Illinois who had traveled to watch their team.
I am glad that this is moving forward and cannot wait for affiliated baseball to return and what the future holds for that area. The soulless bastards that hate on anything and everything can sulk all they want and stay away from the development. The rest of us will have a good time.The boundaries which divide Life from Death are at best shadowy and vague. Who shall say where the one ends, and where the other begins?Comment
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Scott, did you prefer that LD Stadium continue to exist?Originally posted by Scott View PostComment
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No, LDS needed to go. I just think building the same thing in the same spot to lure a minor league baseball team to town at a cost of $80 million + is a boondoggle of epic proportions. That is a prime spot with riverfront access and views and we are wasting it on a minor league baseball stadium. The extreme hyperbole of the baseball fans and the "build it and they will come" crowd is pure fantasy. Baseball is a sport in decline with shrinking attendance, an aging fanbase and has shown no ability to connect with younger fans. Wichita cannot move forward by trying the same old same old failed ideas. Here are some reality based views of the value of taxpayer funded minor league baseball.Originally posted by Veritas View Post
"Victor Matheson, a sports economist at College of the Holy Cross, says, “A good rule of thumb that economists use is to take what stadium boosters are telling you and move that one decimal place to the left, and that’s usually a good estimate of what you’re going to get.”
Michael, who has studied Chicago’s five major league pro franchises, says if every sports team in Chicago were to suddenly disappear, the impact on the Chicago economy would be a fraction of one percent. “A baseball team has about the same impact on a community as a midsize department store.”
Economists say the biggest reason sports teams don’t have much impact is that they don’t tend to spur new spending. Brad Humphreys, a professor of sports and entertainment at the University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign, and Dennis Coates, an associate economics professor at the University of Maryland, completed a 30-year study of 37 pro sports franchises. Their report indicates they found: “no single instance in which the presence of a professional sports team has been linked to a boost in the local economy.” Further they determined that the teams result in a statistically negative impact on the retail and service sectors and a reduction in wages for bar and restaurant workers."
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While MLB doesnt properly market their stars I find it hard pressed to believe that baseball as a game has not had the ability to connect with younger fans.
In fact I find that laughable.
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Do you find it laughable because baseball is played by so many young people? Or something else?Originally posted by Awesome Sauce Malone View Post
I tend to agree with Scott and it seems like baseball, in terms of fandom, is certainly trending downward with younger folks. I tend to agree the powers that be have shown no ability to change that.Comment
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Again, with the same old tired argument used by CAVErs for years.Originally posted by Scott View Post
No, LDS needed to go. I just think building the same thing in the same spot to lure a minor league baseball team to town at a cost of $80 million + is a boondoggle of epic proportions. That is a prime spot with riverfront access and views and we are wasting it on a minor league baseball stadium. The extreme hyperbole of the baseball fans and the "build it and they will come" crowd is pure fantasy. Baseball is a sport in decline with shrinking attendance, an aging fanbase and has shown no ability to connect with younger fans. Wichita cannot move forward by trying the same old same old failed ideas. Here are some reality based views of the value of taxpayer funded minor league baseball.
"Victor Matheson, a sports economist at College of the Holy Cross, says, “A good rule of thumb that economists use is to take what stadium boosters are telling you and move that one decimal place to the left, and that’s usually a good estimate of what you’re going to get.”
Michael, who has studied Chicago’s five major league pro franchises, says if every sports team in Chicago were to suddenly disappear, the impact on the Chicago economy would be a fraction of one percent. “A baseball team has about the same impact on a community as a midsize department store.”
Economists say the biggest reason sports teams don’t have much impact is that they don’t tend to spur new spending. Brad Humphreys, a professor of sports and entertainment at the University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign, and Dennis Coates, an associate economics professor at the University of Maryland, completed a 30-year study of 37 pro sports franchises. Their report indicates they found: “no single instance in which the presence of a professional sports team has been linked to a boost in the local economy.” Further they determined that the teams result in a statistically negative impact on the retail and service sectors and a reduction in wages for bar and restaurant workers."
Time to use another line because this one doesn’t hold a lot of weight.
Quality of place (that is among other things, entertainment options such as sports) has been shown to explain population growth and attraction of young workers to mid-size metro cities (Wichita is one).
Read this on why quality of place matters to cities like Wichita, and why the city council is doing the right thing for Wichita’s future.
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