New Downtown Baseball Stadium, AAA Club, and Associated RE Development

[AZ Shocker]

Not a chance. Not even rational talking about it.

Omaha basically built a 1/2 scale MLB park for the CWS. If we do end up building a killer $90M, say 12K seat stadium, we will still be down about 30% in outlay and 50% in seating from the new Ameritrade Park. Plus bigger town and oodles of CWS history.

Awww. Didn't realize Omaha had built a new ballpark. Yeah...after looking that up...forget about it. Anyways...excited to hear Wichita possibly getting a new one. I always liked the cityscape view from the bleachers when I was a kid going to LDS. Hope they try to keep that with the new one.

[MoValley John]

Is it also possible...if the city is gonna swing for the fences and build an amazing new state of the art Triple AAA baseball stadium...that there is possible talk about potentially swaying the College World Series from Omaha??? Wondering out loud.....

CWS is in Omaha until 2035 at a minimum. A long-term contract was signed to induce Omaha to build. Personally, I'd love to get rid of the CWS, but the NCAA really wanted the thing in Omaha badly enough to sign an unprecidented, long-term contract. It isn't moving.

Then again, I've always said I'd trade the CWS to Wichita for Big Brutus if I could make that deal happen.

[ShockCrazy]

Though some on this board may not like it, a part of the stadium focus will likely be soccer. Wichita definitely needs to pursue at least a USL D3 team, Longwell apparently went up to an SKC game not that long ago despite not really being a soccer fan, perhaps SKC is interested in moving their USL affiliate (Swope Park Rangers) out of KC since they have had nearly non-existent attendance? Either way hopefully we can have a fully professional club either in USL or USL D3.

[shocks02]

A USL team in wichita would be phenomenal.

[SHOCKvalue]

Though some on this board may not like it, a part of the stadium focus will likely be soccer. Wichita definitely needs to pursue at least a USL D3 team, Longwell apparently went up to an SKC game not that long ago despite not really being a soccer fan, perhaps SKC is interested in moving their USL affiliate (Swope Park Rangers) out of KC since they have had nearly non-existent attendance? Either way hopefully we can have a fully professional club either in USL or USL D3.

Why do we need to shortchange the new baseball facility when the city is in the middle of a $22M STAR bond renovation of Stryker, which includes tripling seating at the main field up to 2500? That’s probably already several times what attendance requires for a soccer club.

It would be a classic Wichita move though, I’ll give you that, which means it will probably happen.

”hey guys... let’s make an arena too small, with a ceiling that hangs like a cave, and all the suites on one side... it’ll be sweet and so unique”

”geez, who wants to help get Bass Pro as the centerpiece of a massive downtown development project when a strip center retailer out of Minnesota that no one has heard of wants to build a warehouse box instead”

”I have a swell idea... we’ll make an oddball baseball facility so that five times a year 300 people can spread out amongst 9-12k seats and scream GOAL for 32 seconds twice a game... that’d be awesome”

[ShockCrazy]

Why do we need to shortchange the new baseball facility when the city is in the middle of a $22M STAR bond renovation of Stryker, which includes tripling seating at the main field up to 2500? That’s probably already several times what attendance requires for a soccer club.

It would be a classic Wichita move though, I’ll give you that, which means it will probably happen.

”hey guys... let’s make an arena too small, with a ceiling that hangs like a cave, and all the suites on one side... it’ll be sweet and so unique”

”geez, who wants to help get Bass Pro as the centerpiece of a massive downtown development project when a strip center retailer out of Minnesota that no one has heard of wants to build a warehouse box instead”

”I have a swell idea... we’ll make an oddball baseball facility so that five times a year 300 people can spread out amongst 9-12k seats and scream GOAL for 32 seconds twice a game... that’d be awesome”

The problem is the city already screwed the pooch if they wanted Stryker to host professional soccer long term. It is not large enough to host division 2 soccer, which I assume would be the ultimate ambition(assuming pro/rel comes to USL/USL D3, which seems like the goal). And it does meet division 3 standards, 2.5k isn't large enough really if its going to be successful.

Also you SEVERELY underestimate the interest professional soccer has now and would have in the future in this city.

[pogo]

Wichita does have a knack for screwing up major building projects as in the Water walk project that never even got off the ground. However IBA was financed by the one time short time increase in taxes. They had a budget and built what they could afford and as far as I know haven't had to come back with hat in hand because of needed additional funding because they didn't keep a chunk in funds back for that purpose. Is it perfect, No but it's better than I thought we would end up with.

[SHOCKvalue]

Also you SEVERELY underestimate the interest professional soccer has now and would have in the future in this city.

The nation has been hearing for literally decades about how US interest in soccer is going to be exponential, but yet if you graphed it you’d be hard pressed to identify a slope.

[SHOCKvalue]

Wichita does have a knack for screwing up major building projects as in the Water walk project that never even got off the ground. However IBA was financed by the one time short time increase in taxes. They had a budget and built what they could afford and as far as I know haven't had to come back with hat in hand because of needed additional funding because they didn't keep a chunk in funds back for that purpose. Is it perfect, No but it's better than I thought we would end up with.

It is certainly worlds better than the Coliseum, but you’d be hard-pressed to identify another modern arena, in a city that could be considered a rough comparable to Wichita, that is less impressive.

IBA was $200M; it wasn’t a “budget” build. If you do a survey of other arenas built for similar money (adjusted to like points of inflation) it is some combination shocking and depressing.

I had a closer experience with IBA than (I’m guessing) anyone else on the forum. When the plans were released (long before the public had any idea what was coming) there was a collective WTF-is-this expressed by A LOT of folks. Trust me.

[C0|dB|00ded]

OKC built their Ford Center (Chesapeake Energy Arena) a couple years before IBA for $90 million. They seat over 18k for basketball...

Sure there's been improvements over the years but wow. What a smart, smart build.


T


...:cool:

[ShockCrazy]

The nation has been hearing for literally decades about how US interest in soccer is going to be exponential, but yet if you graphed it you’d be hard pressed to identify a slope.

I bet you would be shocked to know that the USL(2nd division in soccer) is averaging just under 5K per game in a 33 team league(compared to 4,300 last year). And that's including MLS affiliated clubs in the same city as the parent club, which are total attendance drags. Independent clubs, of which there are 24, are averaging nearly 6,200 per game(compared to 5,600 last year). So yeah soccer is doing alright and continually growing.

[shocks02]

The nation has been hearing for literally decades about how US interest in soccer is going to be exponential, but yet if you graphed it you’d be hard pressed to identify a slope.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/filipbondy/2017/11/13/major-league-soccer-may-be-growing-too-rapidly-for-its-own-good/#2be3f4ff36ea

[RoyalShock]

Everyone, recite the man's prayer . . .

I'm a man,
I can get used to a soccer team playing in a stadium built for a real sport,
If I have to,
I guess.

[SHOCKvalue]

Hey, at least IBA isn’t a tan/brown collection of stucco boxes like almost everything else built in this town - downtown or otherwise - this century. I’ll give it that. At least they spent a part of that money on some brick masonry.

And the concourses are very very nicely done as well. Solid design and materials. Then you walk into the arena bowl...

[SHOCKvalue]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/filipbo.../#2be3f4ff36ea

The nuts and bolts of that article betray the hype of its title.

It says the MLS TV deal is 8 years, $90M spread over 26 (?) clubs. That's MVC money, isn't it? The football-less Big East inked a 12 year, $500M TV deal back in 2013, which works out to something like $4M per annum per school. If the AAC gets that BE figure or less here in a couple of years, then Aresco should probably look for a body guard.

It also says most players earn in the five figures.


Average attendence for MLS in 2018 was 21,473, which I'm guessing is something like 10K below what non-P5, outside-looking-in AAC football averages:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_M..._Soccer_season


Average attendence for MLS in 1996 - 23 seasons ago and the first season of MLS - was 17,406:

https://ussoccerplayers.com/2018/05/...mplicated.html


That's an annual attendance growth rate of - drumroll please - 1%. That's not a joke folks. Well, I mean it is, but it isn't.

[ShockCrazy]

The nuts and bolts of that article betray the hype of its title. It says the MLS tv deal is essentially a little over $11M per annum spread over 26 (?) clubs. That's MVC money, isn't it?

Average attendence for MLS in 2018 was 21,473, which I'm guessing is something like 10K below what non-P5, outside-looking-in AAC football averages:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_M..._Soccer_season

Average attendence for MLS in 1996 - 23 seasons ago and the first season of MLS - was 17,406:

https://ussoccerplayers.com/2018/05/...mplicated.html

That's an annual attendance growth rate of - drumroll please - 1%. That's not a joke folks. Well, I mean it is, but it isn't.

Where are you coming up with the 11 million number? The league gets 90 million per year. Also the league last year signed a massive deal with adidas bringing in nearly 117 million per year. For reference it's a 6 year 700 million dollar deal, compared to the NBA which just last year got an 8 year 1 billion dollar deal. So that's a pretty large apparel contract in the scheme of things.