Eagle WBB article coming

[ShockRef]

I think this situation is a combination of a lot things and I don’t think it is right to dismiss some of these girls’ accusations out of hand.

To be fair I don’t follow the women’s program very closely but Albright’s coaching style, if you can call it that, as described in the article just seems bizarre to me. Compared to the way Adams's is described, I’m sure it was quite a shock to the returning players. From what I can gather, solely from the article, despite their protests, these girls didn’t appear to react to the change well. Which is perfectly normal – several of Turgeon’s players didn’t seem to adjust to CGM either.

There are two issues raised by the departing girls that I think need to be fleshed out a bit: (1) The racial issue; and (2) the practice time issue.

With regard to the first issue: Adams admits in the article that the team began to divide early on and it only became worse as the season progressed. This could simply be a reflection of the respective talents of individual players or it could have been fostered by the coaching staff. However, in this case I am willing to give Adams the benefit of the doubt. Adams appears to be very competitive. A competitive coach doesn’t care what color a player is, what type of background they come from or by what name they call God – they only care about giving playing time to players that earn it and will help the team win. It would be counterproductive, and self-defeating, for Adams to act otherwise. So I doubt that the coaching staff was harder on some players because of ethnicity or color. With regard to recruiting – I would hope that Adams recruiting efforts are not based on some sort of quota.

The practice time issue bothers me. These girls are making a serious accusation – one that could hurt the future of the program. I hope Adams and her staff are not violating NCAA rules.

I don’t know Adams but most everything I have read about her I like. And I wish her well.

I think that this is pretty much spot on and I would like to add a thing or two about the issue of race:

1. I believe that many of the racial issues are more about culture and class than about race. Jody is a blue collar person who wants to recruit blue collar players. The reality is not whether we are likely to see white players on Jody's teams, but whether we are likely to see middle class players.

There is a strong tradition of minority groups and the lower classes using sports as a means of social advancement, because they have fewer options and can make something of themselves through determination and hard work. (See Italians in baseball 50 years ago, African Americans and Eastern Europeans in basketball now, etc.). Jody came from that background and has an approach and value set that is effective with players from those backgrounds.

Jane wanted middle class well rounded people, Jody wants working class basketball obsessed people. It shouldn't be surprising that the black players responded better than the middle class white players to Jody's coaching, but because of culture rather than race.

2. Jody comes from the the South, and if you have any understanding of Southern culture, there is a much greater degree of ease with which race is discussed than in other parts of the country. The fact that (mosty rural) mid-western white girls listened to Jody and thought she put everything in racial terms doesn't necessarily mean that Jody was putting any particular emphasis on race, but rather that as a Southerner she doesn't have the same cultural paranoia about using racial terms that exist elsewhere.

3. Anyone familiar with basketball subculture, particularly in the inner city, knows that things be cast in racial terms has nothing to do with racism. The fact that when picking teams for a pick up game it goes something along the lines of "I'll take the white boy, or the puerta rican guy, or the big black dude, etc." does not mean that racism is going on. Many in basketball culture will tell you that things get framed in racial terms all the time, but that is not the same as racism in any way shape or form. The fact that this was not culturally the way Jane was or that white girls who were mostly from rural Kansas were not used to it does not mean that Jody inappropriately cast things in racial terms for a basketball coach, even if we believe the extreme claim that everything was cast in racial terms, which my guess is an exaggeration based on frustration and surprise at the culture shock that was experienced under the change in coaches.

Culture shock is a real and powerful phenomenon. The fact that some players were shocked by the dramatic shift in culture from Jane to Jody does not mean that anything wrong was done. When I live out of the US for a semester, not only was I shocked by the culture I was (in England), but I was emotionally very upset and thought that the way things were done in Britain was stupid and wrong and I just wanted to be back home where things were familiar. Does that mean that English culture is objectively wrong or evil because I had emotional trauma? No. While I can't prove that the accusations in this case are definitively attributable to culture shock, I would in no uncertain terms say that they were at least largely influenced by it.

You make some very good points.

Wow.
TMH does make some good points. But I'm more impressed with the spin factor being applied.
There is zero doubt that TMH is a true Shocker to the bone. No question about it.
But you can only put so much lipstick on the pig.
If JA is making comments about "Letting a white girl drive by you" and "Don't let the white girl do that again" it's a tad bit more than Southern culture influence.
The overall issue still rings back to recruiting.
'Perception is reality' is a common thread today and it applies.
I've worked a number of Girls AAU Tournaments and guess what - the white girls can play.
Lots of them too.
If JA is labeled as a 'white girls should just get married and have babies' type, she is screwed, blued, BBQed and tattooed.
Which leads back to my original post, the good Dr. should have smothered this long ago. Now that it's out, he needs to jump on it with both feet! 8)

[WstateU]

WstateU... grow up, I am simply trying to point out that I see a disturbing trend, the incoming recruits along with the comments made in the paper seems to make a decent argument for itself. I want to be as fair as possible, I just see a disturbing trend. If you know any of the players from the article or have talked to them as I have, I find no reason NOT to believe them.

Son, grow a pair... get a sense of humor... oh, and I'm likely 3 times your elder.

:good:

[Hovpen]

Looks like our local girls can kiss the Shockers goodbye on their way out to play for other colleges in the MV or Big 12.

Another black eye.

My, how on earth will the volleyball team win with all those local girls playing.

[pogo]

Local? I see two from Wichita and four others from Kansas. Andover could be considered local. The volleyball team has an established track record and can recruit the best local talent and can go outside and get comparable talent. I believe that over a period of time JA can build the program to a point where local girls will want to be recruited. So you believe that local girls should be recruited first no matter what the skill level is and then go out and get whatever is left. Let JA establish a program that has contacted local talent and built a raport with them for the purpose of recruiting them. As far as whether the talent is black, white, hispanic or asian I could care less as long as they continue to represent the Shox in a positive manner.

[Hovpen]

The skill level of our local girls is quite high for the ones going to college. In the past four years alone we have had local ladies go to Virginia Commonwealth, SMU, Oklahoma, OSU, Missouri State, K-State, Missouri, Memphsis, Boise State and in most cases, started or were major contributors. We've been down this road before. You don't establish good relations with local coaches by running off their current players.

Past history of the WSU administration slants me to side with the former players on this one. Coverup is the word and it ain't the first time.

[jdmee]

Hey 'shockerball05'... what do you think of the 2009 Volleyball Roster?

http://www.goshockers.com/SportSelect.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=7500&KEY=&SPID=2838&SPSID=61210

:clap:

That I wish that the volleyball court was converted into a mud volleyball court!

[jdmee]

Wow.
TMH does make some good points. But I'm more impressed with the spin factor being applied.
There is zero doubt that TMH is a true Shocker to the bone. No question about it.
But you can only put so much lipstick on the pig.

If JA is making comments about "Letting a white girl drive by you" and "Don't let the white girl do that again" it's a tad bit more than Southern culture influence.
The overall issue still rings back to recruiting.
'Perception is reality' is a common thread today and it applies.
I've worked a number of Girls AAU Tournaments and guess what - the white girls can play.

Lots of them too.

It all depends on the context of the statement.

If the statement was "Don't let number 32 do that again" would that be a bad thing? Number 32 might be a damn good player, but its the play we have to stop to have a chance. She might have a way to stop number 32 but her player isn't doing it.

It could have easily been a reference as a way to differentiate the player on the floor and nothing racial.

Is it a
"Don't let that white girl DO THAT AGAIN." You can stop her statement.

Or a
"Don't let THAT white girl do that again." Your letting the worst player on the floor beat you statement.

Or a
"Don't let that WHITE girl do that again." This would be the most racial statement.

[shockerball05]

WstateU... grow up, I am simply trying to point out that I see a disturbing trend, the incoming recruits along with the comments made in the paper seems to make a decent argument for itself. I want to be as fair as possible, I just see a disturbing trend. If you know any of the players from the article or have talked to them as I have, I find no reason NOT to believe them.

Son, grow a pair... get a sense of humor... oh, and I'm likely 3 times your elder.

:good:

1. Your sense of humor is not funny.

2. I highly highly doubt your in your mid 100's.

3. I think the issue may as well be dead already, seeing as how this came out in the paper, IF all that was said is true, wont JA make a conscious effort to bring in some white players to balance it out and make herself look good?

[Maggie]

3. I think the issue may as well be dead already, seeing as how this came out in the paper, IF all that was said is true, wont JA make a conscious effort to bring in some white players to balance it out and make herself look good?

Not if she has principles.

[WstateU]

WstateU... grow up, I am simply trying to point out that I see a disturbing trend, the incoming recruits along with the comments made in the paper seems to make a decent argument for itself. I want to be as fair as possible, I just see a disturbing trend. If you know any of the players from the article or have talked to them as I have, I find no reason NOT to believe them.

Son, grow a pair... get a sense of humor... oh, and I'm likely 3 times your elder.

:good:

1. Your sense of humor is not funny.

2. I highly highly doubt your in your mid 100's.

3. I think the issue may as well be dead already, seeing as how this came out in the paper, IF all that was said is true, wont JA make a conscious effort to bring in some white players to balance it out and make herself look good?

1. You obviously don't have a sense of humor… you old fart. :D
2. Have you seen the Green Mile?
3. Do you think Chris Lamb needs to bring in black players to balance out his volleyball roster?

[wu_shizzle]

The skill level of our local girls is quite high for the ones going to college. In the past four years alone we have had local ladies go to Virginia Commonwealth, SMU, Oklahoma, OSU, Missouri State, K-State, Missouri, Memphsis, Boise State and in most cases, started or were major contributors. We've been down this road before. You don't establish good relations with local coaches by running off their current players.

You seem to have a problem with Jane Albright's recruiting, not Jody Adams'.

[pogo]

The skill level of our local girls is quite high for the ones going to college. In the past four years alone we have had local ladies go to Virginia Commonwealth, SMU, Oklahoma, OSU, Missouri State, K-State, Missouri, Memphsis, Boise State and in most cases, started or were major contributors. We've been down this road before. You don't establish good relations with local coaches by running off their current players.

You seem to have a problem with Jane Albright's recruiting, not Jody Adams'.

Thats the way it sounds to me. I think all this local talent did not come here because the program was a bottom feeder.

[SubGod22]

Much of the local talent was ignored.

[CourtJester]

Much of the local talent was ignored.

No it wasn't. They just couldn't get in the door and close the deal.

[wu_shizzle]

What a more "Chocolaty" women's team may look like...