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Revenue for who? Chris and his coaches or WSU Volleyball?
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I think a smaller venue would be great for both women’s volleyball and basketball.
Said if for years myself, as well.The AssmanComment
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I think that would be a good thing. I assume you mean a smaller venue shared by the VB and WBB team. I don't think we will see that anytime soon unless there is wealthy donor who happens to like one or both of those programs and would like a legacy building on campus named after them.Originally posted by Shock Top View Post
That said even such a facility doesn't guarantee success on the court. VB has been in slump ever since Emily and Abbie graduated after the 2017-18 season. The last 2 years were sub-.500. This year started out like maybe the VB program was back on track but that seems to have been fool's gold although the team is still competitive for the most part. I am not sure what Lambo's recruiting budget is but seems I heard it was next to nothing and, of course, they lost their big annual fund raising dinner and auction to COVID this year and perhaps next fall as well.
WBB just seems to be a mess and not very enticing to the fans and as long as Shocker MBB sucks all the oxygen out of the room during the winter no reason to think that is going to change. At least VB has the advantage of being the only spectator sport in the fall and IMO is a pretty entertaining sport to watch. XC will never be much competition in terms of fan support.
The dynamics of recruiting have IMO become much more challenging with the move to the AAC. Houston and SMU have a distinct advantage in two big recruiting areas that historically Shocker coaches like to mine for example.
I think Volleyball will find its way back but the AAC is a much tougher conference than Valley from top to bottom. WBB, I don't know. I think the growing appeal of volleyball to more and more young female athletes is further diminishing an already relatively shallow talent pool for WBB. The elite WBB programs will continue to get the players they need and want but it will be tough for everyone else to find enough talent. The pool of talent in VB on the other hand appears to be growing. The elite VB programs will continue to get the top talent but there is a lot more decent talent to spread around the non-elites making it tougher to distinguish yourself.
Last edited by 1972Shocker; March 22, 2021, 05:46 PM.Comment
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General athletics revenue is down so everyone has to cut, including volleyball, and that means recruiting is basically nil. The club allows some opportunity in that arena.Comment
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The elephant in the room for me is the need for Beach. What I've read indicates that beach skills enhance indoor skills. Especially now that our league is oriented more to the south, having the ability to develop players through a beach season (most schools' top players play both sports) would be advantageous and possibly, with the right facility and fan support, make us more competitive in recruiting nationwide. There are just a few D1s in the region that play (Nebraska, Missouri State, TCU and UCA) and none in Kansas. I get that money is tight -- but there is a window of opportunity while the sport, now five years olde, is just getting rolling.Last edited by Wuzee; March 23, 2021, 09:39 AM.“The rebellion on the populist right against the results of the 2020 election was partly a cynical, knowing effort by political operators and their hype men in the media to steal an election or at least get rich trying. But it was also the tragic consequence of the informational malnourishment so badly afflicting the nation. ... Americans gorge themselves daily on empty informational calories, indulging their sugar fixes of self-affirming half-truths and even outright lies.'”
― Chris StirewaltComment
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I appreciate the financials and suggestions for a new venue to help the program. As well as Lambo selling "Youth" as an excuse for years.
However, dig a little deeper....
Since the beginning of the Championship 2017 season, WSU volleyball has had 52 players enter the program.
*Minus the 6 Seniors on the 2017 roster; 46 players with remaining eligibility after 2017.
2017: 13 freshman/redshirt, 4 sophomores, 2 juniors, 6 seniors (25 on roster)
2018: 9 freshman/redshirt, 7 sophomores, 4 juniors, 2 seniors (22 on roster)
*3 players left the program with eligibility remaining.
2019: 10 freshman/redshirt, 2 sophomores, 5 juniors, 2 seniors (19 on roster)
*12 players left the program with eligibility remaining.
2020: 12 freshman/redshirt, 6 sophomores, 2 juniors, 3 seniors (23 on roster)
*5 players left the program with eligibility remaining. (Cyra Kelly left before actually joining as a freshman)
20 players leaving the WSU volleyball program with eligibility remaining since 2017.
21 if you include Tabitha Brown who chose to transfer rather than play her extra year at WSU.
The excuse of "Youth" does not work when the best team in the last 4 season had the MOST freshman on the roster.
Players that have made it through the 4 seasons since 2017 (freshman-senior)
-Brooke Smith
-Megan Taflinger
-Emma Wright
Players that have left with eligibility remaining since 2017
-Ariana Arjomand
-Tabitha Brown
-Grace Burken
-Giorgia Civita
-Maddy Fruend
-Meghan Grimes
-Lauren Hinricks
-Chase Jackson
-Kora Kauling
-Cyra Kelly
-Alex Koon
-Aspen Kridner
-Jenna Mak
-Kara Maleski
-Alayna Maslinski
-Makena Miller
-Chinelo Ogogor
-Abby Pugh
-Jordan Roberts
-Regan Staiwalt
-Ashley Warehime
Don't forget the coaches that also left.
Austin Hosto-Gone
Brian Magbitang-Gone
Julie Allen-Gone
I'm not quite sure how a smaller venue for the Volleyball team or Beach Volleyball addresses the above?Last edited by jimshocker; March 23, 2021, 12:49 PM.Comment
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On an old post, I wrote of a conversation I had a handful of years back with the mother of a very prominent player with the volleyball team. She was very complimentary of Lamb’s wife and her contributions to the program and clearly stated that she was not a fan of Chris Lamb. I believe shortly thereafter, his wife stepped back from the program and the tailspin started happening.Originally posted by jimshocker View Post
I recall reading an article (or perhaps a post) regarding putting balloons up a Koch to test the wind currents and the impact on serves.
Doesn’t seem to have helped.
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Originally posted by jimshocker View Post
How many walkons in that group of players? This isn't anything like men's basketball if that is what you're implying (and I'm not saying it is, I just don't know your point).
Also, most of the ladies on that list moved on for legitimate reasons that you're never going to overcome with athletics, especially female athletics where there is basically no hope (or desire) to make a living playing the sport post college.
Out of the 20 or so names you list there, at least a 1/3 and likely 1/2 or more were walkons.
Makena Miller decided she wanted to be a model and fitness guru.
Alex Koon had graduated and was injured.
Kara Maleski graduated.
Regan Staiwalt chose the full ride program.
Again, not sure what you're implying, and I'm not saying that no athlete has ever left because they didn't like Lambo. But if you're saying he's the problem, you're wrong.Comment
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Originally posted by WuDrWu View Post
Not implying anything. Just stating the facts.
It seems you might be implying because they are "young ladies" they have issues beyond volleyball......which is a big stretch.
My point is, over 4 seasons:
Average of 11 freshman on the roster.
Average of 3.5 seniors on the roster. (AND that includes transfers in)
Average of TWO years for players in the program.
That math doesn't add up.
This isn't a JUCO. The point is to develop your freshman so they are eventually contributing as Seniors. Most programs don't carry 20+ players every year. 12-15 is usual.
I wonder how all the "young ladies" at other programs make it 3-4 years and become Juniors and Seniors and overcome their issues beyond volleyball?
-Do the other programs provide more emotional support for them?
-Do the other programs vet out recruits better so they don't have so many weak "young ladies"?
I doesn't matter if they walk on or are scholarship players as freshman. They should be in the gym practicing to make the team better. That does not seem to be the case?
Maybe if there were a few less "young ladies" with issues in the gym, the "young ladies" without issues would be better at volleyball? But, again.....not Lambo's issues right? It's not like he's recruiting the kids to join the program or anything?
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Volleyball gets 12 scholarships. Most schools carry 12-14 kids on the roster. Therefore the average program is going to have 3-5 kids per class. Lamb likes having a full gym and will allow a lot of walk-ons. A walk-on is less likely to stick it out for the full 4 years. I would expect us to hold on to 2-4 kids per class and graduate that many per year.
I went back to 2006 and normal senior classes have been 2-4 players with a low of 0 in 2006 and 6 in 2009 (next largest class was 4). Seems to be consistent for as far back as the rosters go on the WSU website and not something new and recent.Comment
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Clearly with your 4 posts (all in this thread) you have a bone to pick. Perhaps you're a parent, I don't know and frankly I don't care.
You seem to have an agenda, I don't. Most of those student athletes (is that an ok term to use instead of young ladies?) you listed left for specific non volleyball related issues, and I would bet that a large number of other programs have exactly the same issues.
I'm done with this topic, to me it's pointless. Feel free to continue on your own with anyone that is interested in debating your agenda.
Go Shocks
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I do want to make one comment about sand. A lot of student athletes want to have sand as an option. I know for a fact that not having it has closed doors for recruiting some student athletes.
There is a great sand facility they can use but budget concerns have nixed that plan. Lambo wants it but was denied. Take it for what it's worth.Comment
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[QUOTE=WuDrWu;n1291017]Clearly with your 4 posts (all in this thread) you have a bone to pick. Perhaps you're a parent, I don't know and frankly I don't care.
You seem to have an agenda, I don't. Most of those student athletes (is that an ok term to use instead of young ladies?) you listed left for specific non volleyball related issues, and I would bet that a large number of other programs have exactly the same issues.
I'm done with this topic, to me it's pointless. Feel free to continue on your own with anyone that is interested in debating your agenda.
Go Shocks
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I am sorry. I do have somewhat of an agenda and have followed this board for a while and was intrigued by the "Elephant in the Room" topic. I also noticed a statement about putting Lambo up on a pedestal.
My agenda was to discuss the "Elephant in the Room" and respond to the Lambo on a pedestal comment. I probably came off too strong to start my postings.
End the topic if you like.
My thoughts on your thoughts.
1. WSU has consistently drawn some of the best crowds in D1 volleyball for years. That was dropping BEFORE COVID hit. Who knows what becomes of fans in the seats over the next 2-3 years? Does building a new venue for Volleyball sound remotely feasible? I don't think the size of the venue is the Elephant in the room. Getting fans to KOCH arena has not been a problem?
2. Sand Program. WSU needs opponents to play sand volleyball. Who would they play? Are these teams closer to Kansas? How does building a sand facility for volleyball alleviate any budget issues? How are they going to get to the venues that the opponents would play in? What revenue would offset the cost of traveling for sand volleyball? Lambo was involved in getting the Sand Courts set up at the Wichita Sports forum.. Part of the purpose was for WSU volleyball to train in the Forum Sand. Fortunately, the Sand Facility is already built, it is called the Wichita Sports Forum; unfortunately, the AAC is not a sand volleyball conference. I don't think sand is the Elephant in the room? It's available....just down the road.
3. The comment about young ladies, their off court issues, and women's sports not having post graduate opportunities is just absurd. All true. Still completely irrelevant. If those things are issues for women's volleyball, they are issues for ALL women's sports, except maybe basketball. Why have women's college sports at all? It seems there is no point to them?
*Plenty of WSU volleyball players DO PLAY PROFESSIONAL Volleyball overseas. One of the BEST Women's Professional BEACH players is a WSU GRAD!! I don't think this topic is the Elephant in the room either.
I apologize for not feeling the EXCUSES laid out above are the Elephant in the Room for WSU Volleyball.
I feel the constant Assistant coaching changes and roster turn over has had more of an affect on the program. Therefore, I feel figuring out why that is happening is worth a discussion about the Elephant in the Room.
Good Day.Comment
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1. As someone who is very close to a couple former D1 VB players, I can tell you these ladies are not looking for the “Pros”.
2. Assistant coaches move constantly at all levels in all sports. I feel you are looking for things to point to your beliefs. No idea if you have a real reason to be upset or just feel slighted. Your searching for things to cling to seems to lean towards the latter.
3. I am not close to the WSU program or the Lambs. It I am close to a couple other programs. Above all else, fitting in with the coach is important. Their style matching the personality of the player is constantly overlooked based on wanting to be a part of a program based on winning.
4. It is probably better for everyone that your daughter moved on. She probably did better at her next stop knowing what she learned from her first stop. I hope she does well in life.
5. Don’t be Craig Stevenson. You either are him, or are trying to be. Don’t. Move on like an adult.Comment
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The whole idea of women college sports is to give opportunity for girls for college education.Originally posted by jimshocker View Post
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