Football at Wichita State

[rjl]

Notre Dame has some very high admission standards for athletes. Not as high as the Ivy, but certainly much much higher than the Big X. Still, I think it might be advantageous for them to join the Big X in all sports.
Their storied history is getting just a bit dusty and the pages are starting to yellow just a tad.

ND's standards are lower than Stanford's.

[ShockTalk]

Title 9 makes it nearly imposible for a school like wsu.

Not the right answer. It doesn't seem to stop the schools in the Sun Belt, WAC, C-USA, and Mid-American. These football schools have men's basketball and most have baseball. Same is true of many of the FCS football schools as well. Feel free to use other arguments, however.

[SB Shock]

Title 9 makes it nearly imposible for a school like wsu.

Not the right answer. It doesn't seem to stop the schools in the Sun Belt, WAC, C-USA, and Mid-American. These football schools have men's basketball and most have baseball. Same is true of many of the FCS football schools as well. Feel free to use other arguments, however.

It is a valid argument when discussing bringing back a program as this issue must be delt with as it will add to the overall cost.

[WSUwatcher]

So?

ND fans are probably hoping this is Brian Kelly's counterpart to Alabama's loss to LA-Monroe in Nick Saban's first year.

Anyway, 3, the real questions are:

1. How did Tulsa end up playing Notre Dame, and

2. What on earth does Tulsa-ND football, however remarkable the matchup or the result, have to do with WSU basketball?

If we're going to talk football, let's at least relate it to a former WSU basketball recruit, like Durley's old buddy Kendall Wright, who was a key player in Baylor's first win over Mack Brown at Texas today.

But really, can we get a moderator to restore some semblance of topicality here? The very title of the thread should be enough to tag it as inappropriate. So I'll leave now and not return.

[ShockTalk]

Title 9 makes it nearly imposible for a school like wsu.

Not the right answer. It doesn't seem to stop the schools in the Sun Belt, WAC, C-USA, and Mid-American. These football schools have men's basketball and most have baseball. Same is true of many of the FCS football schools as well. Feel free to use other arguments, however.

It is a valid argument when discussing bringing back a program as this issue must be delt with as it will add to the overall cost.

Absolutely, it must be delt with. And the other schools are dealing with it. I'm only stating that unless there are other reasons that put WSU at a disadvantage from the schools I mentioned above, WSU should be able to jump that hurdle. As only an example: If WSU is in a poorer financial position than those schools.

By the way, I'm actually neutral on this issue. My biggest concern is by not having football, how much (if any) disadvantage could it put on WSU and all its athletic programs in the future. If the Valley continues to slip (men's basketball has some, baseball a lot) without an "Atlantic-10" type basketball conference in this region for WSU to possibly jump to, our options are few to none. It could get increasing hard to recruit players or future coaches to WSU and its conference, thereby, WSU sinking with the conference while other conferences may pass us by.

[Aargh]

MSU athletic department - $7 mill shortfall
UNI - hat in hand begging the state for money
SIU - disaster coach they can't afford to fire

WSU currently has one of the highest athletic department budgets in the Valley. Put football into the mix and WSU has to cut funding for every other sport.

I'd wager my house on whether the people begging for FB at WSU would cry bloody murder if funding for everything was cut and they saw the results on the court, in the field, or wherever WSU sports are.

I fear the FB proponents would be the first to complain when budgets for other sports were slashed to the bare bones and WSU couldn't afford coaches like Marshall or Stephenson. I can't remember the name of the "burger boy" obese baseball coach at MSU, but coaches like him and Hinson are what we could expect in those sports if we had FB at WSU.

[SB Shock]

Absolutely, it must be delt with. And the other schools are dealing with it.

And most schools are running deficit in football or cutting sports [with Baseball as a target]

By the way, I'm actually neutral on this issue. My biggest concern is by not having football, how much (if any) disadvantage could it put on WSU and all its athletic programs in the future.

WSU has made it's bed [when it cancelled football in the 80's] and your not going to change that now [especially in this economy]

[ShockTalk]

Again: I'm not a proponent of bringing back football and I'm not trying to change that now or later.

I'd actually like to see a good number of schools drop their football programs. I would like to see an Atlantic-10 type of conference in this region.

Unfortunately, its FOOTBALL and everything else will probably see the ax first among the top 12-14 conferences. Fiscally, dropping football could be one of the best things many of the schools could do. I just don't think it will happen.

We will see if the Valley gets its act together.

[SB Shock]

Again: I'm not a proponent of bringing back football and I'm not trying to change that now or later.

I'd actually like to see a good number of schools drop their football programs. I would like to see an Atlantic-10 type of conference in this region.

Unfortunately, its FOOTBALL and everything else will probably see the ax first among the top 12-14 conferences. Fiscally, dropping football could be one of the best things many of the schools could do. I just don't think it will happen.

We will see if the Valley gets its act together.

The MVC is satisfied where they are at. It will take a new commissioner with some type of vision for the conference before they will have a chance to get their act together.

[ShockTalk]

Again: I'm not a proponent of bringing back football and I'm not trying to change that now or later.

I'd actually like to see a good number of schools drop their football programs. I would like to see an Atlantic-10 type of conference in this region.

Unfortunately, its FOOTBALL and everything else will probably see the ax first among the top 12-14 conferences. Fiscally, dropping football could be one of the best things many of the schools could do. I just don't think it will happen.

We will see if the Valley gets its act together.

The MVC is satisfied where they are at. It will take a new commissioner with some type of vision for the conference before they will have a chance to get their act together.

I feel you may be right. And a new commissioner probably won't happen until more damage is done.

[Shockerman]

MSU athletic department - $7 mill shortfall
UNI - hat in hand begging the state for money
SIU - disaster coach they can't afford to fire

WSU currently has one of the highest athletic department budgets in the Valley. Put football into the mix and WSU has to cut funding for every other sport.

I'd wager my house on whether the people begging for FB at WSU would cry bloody murder if funding for everything was cut and they saw the results on the court, in the field, or wherever WSU sports are.

I fear the FB proponents would be the first to complain when budgets for other sports were slashed to the bare bones and WSU couldn't afford coaches like Marshall or Stephenson. I can't remember the name of the "burger boy" obese baseball coach at MSU, but coaches like him and Hinson are what we could expect in those sports if we had FB at WSU.

"We must protect our little nut, things can't change or grow. We must play it safe. The MVC is our home, I don't care if the neighborhood has gone down hill. Were staying ma."

But Aargh, Cousin Tulsa, the smallest DIA school, has been going to bowl games and just beat Notre Dame."

"That's Tulsa, they have influintal alumni, the economy is good there. This is Wichita, things never change, we must protect our nut. You can't just start a football team in this economy, we will fail."

But Aargh, "Georgia State, Lamar, Charlotte, University of South Alabma, Old Dominion and UTSA all started football teams in the last 3 years."

Aargh: They don't have Title IX problems like we do. If we don't watch our nut carefuly we might lose it! We could never afford the 30 Million dollars needed to start a football program.

But Aargh, all of these schools started programs for less than 8 million dollars.



When is this attitude going to change?

[vancedave56]

...I think the population of the metro area has doubled since football was dropped; surely attendance would be significantly higher now. Would that not be a factor?

[The Mad Hatter]

A. You do realize that the reason Tulsa has football in the face of Title IX was their elimination of their baseball program, right? Do you suggest WSU do the same?

B. You realize that having started a program within the last three years is not the same thing as long term success, right? Lots of people were investing in sub-prime mortgages before 2007. Didn't make it a good idea.

C. You realize that when people talk about the cost, they are talking about making it to the FCS level, right? You can't claim benefits like better conference affiliation that only comes with FCS level football while citing budget numbers of running a program at a lower level.

D. You have heard of a straw man argument, haven't you? Making up a dialogue where you set up overly-simplified arguments in order to knock them down fits that bill. In addition, attributing that dialogue to a real person from the opposing camp is incredibly insulting, especially when you portray that person as an idiot:

"We must protect our little nut, things can't change or grow. We must play it safe. The MVC is our home, I don't care if the neighborhood has gone down hill. Were staying ma."

How would you like it if it were done to you:

Shockerman, "I'm too stupid to understand the complexity of college athletics or organizational funding, so I whine about things my school doesn't have while ignoring what others lack and downplaying any differences in situations between schools, because I can't understand how institutions are different from each other. I'm also blindly optimistic about spending money and don't believe that you should care about risks. Do you have a ponzi scheme for me to invest in?"

Think that is a legitimate argument against bringing back football? Neither do I, so stop doing it in the other direction.

[PCDShocker]

First, I am all for bringing back football if conditions were right. I don't think they are at this time.

In reference to Tulsa I am not sure this is a reasonable comparison. I live in Tulsa and went to the Tulsa/Rice game Saturday where Tulsa put a heck of wooping up on Rice. Just to note, here is a team that just beat Notre Dame, and you would think there would have been a near sell out at the Rice game. Instead there were only 19,000 in attendance at a stadium that seats about 36,000. Not what I would call outstanding support. Tulsa dumped baseball to accomdate the emphasis of C-USA in football and basketball. The MVC has no emphasis on football. The city of Tulsa also has the best high school football teams in Oklahoma and in frankly in the region, and Tulsa does get their fair share of those athletes. This not a situation I see as comparable to Wichita. The cost to bring back football and the subsequent addition or elimination of other sports at WSU would not be feasible at this time. Add to that our current conference affiliation, and the lack of emphasis on football and that makes a return of WSU football highly unlikely. I know for a fact that there are influential people in Wichita that would like to restore the football program, but they are seeing these issues in the same light as many regarding this feasibility.

[Veritas]

I want football to return to WSU as badly as the most ardent supporter. I also believe there are many positives to Wichita, southcentral Kansas, and WSU in bringing back the sport including national recognition, positive campus life, and larger school enrollment.

The biggest (and probably only) concern I have about this topic is that WSU can not stay a member of the Valley if WSU fields a football team. Few, including me, is going to be excited to see WSU play IlSU, UNI, SIU, or any other member of the "Gateway" conference.

I'm curious as to whether those fans that do not support football are happy with the results of our sports programs in the past 24 years since football was dropped. With all that money being saved from not fielding a team, I would like to see a dedicated arena to VB/W-BB, and for WSU to completely dominate the Valley in ALL sports (similar to what the baseball program has done).