Football at Wichita State

[shox1989]

I think one of the issues that bothered me about Perkins was that he cut the program in part to make himself look good. Rather than dig deep and endeavor to fund the program, he gave up. Then he let the NCAA know how he cut a troubled program. They gave him a pat on the back and then he moves to Maryland. He left a wake of destruction at WSU and will of course do the same thing at KU.

Regarding present day... If the Valley folds or we see an IlSU and MSU depart for greener pastures, WSU will be in a real bind without football. Having a football program and doing it right will ensure a strong athletic program in the future. Without it and we could see WSU forced into the Summit league or a watered down MoVal conference.
It's a gamble, but I really don't see how WSU will continue to grow and get stronger without football.

Perkins was given the order to cut the football program by then President Warren Armstrong. Like a good trooper he obeyed and stopped the bleeding at somewhere around 2 million in the red. As Veritas has pointed out the rest is history. The bulk of the moval teams are not making the committment to fund their programs at a level that will allow the moval to prosper. If the valley continues to stagnate it won't mean alot to be the top dog in a mediocre league.

It is hard to compare then to now. WSU had to play that last year as a 1-A independent.

The Valley had dropped football as a conference sport after the 1985 season.

The 1-aa valley football teams formed the GATEWAY CONFERENCE.

That left WSU and Tulsa to fend for themselves (the two 1-A members of the Valley).

I was upset because I thought WSU should have given the community a chance to save the team.

Unless your Notre Dame it is very tough to make it as an independent.

[Aargh]

Earlier, the FB proponents were using SIU as an example of how it works. The fact that SIU's athletic department is bankrupt stopped that. Now MSU is being trotted out as the example of a school that's going to leave WSU behind.

MSU's financial situation is so tight they were paying Hinson $300K. Looking at his recruits, Hinson's recruiting budget probably gave him gas mileage for driving to Tulsa. Hinson almost exclusively recruited local players.

When the results weren't satisfactory to the fans, MSU couldn't afford to fire him and had to leave him in charge while his contract ran down, which killed recruiting. MSU is REALLY fortunate to have hired the right coach to get them back on the upswing and moving toward the top of the league.

MSU is another bad example to justify football.

[shox1989]

You guys can pooh pooh football all you want. The reality is that it is the #1 college sport today. It is only getting bigger and if WSU doesn't at least field a team we will be doomed to division 2 status some day (probably sooner than we realize).

We need to bring back football ASAP. The discussion shouldn't be if but how.

We need to have a plan to make it work. Which in a city this size with many wealthy contributors really shouldn't be a problem.

If it takes a small local sales tax to get it going so be it. We just need to make it happen ASAP.

[ABC]

A sales tax for college football will never happen.

Nor should it. That idea is nuts.

We are surpassing all-time levels of govt (all levels) of spending, deficits and debt.

The current economy is suffering b/c of it and wil continue to do so for some time.

The state of Kansas sales tax is going to increase by an entire penny on July 1.

I suuport the effort to bring back football, but it won't and shouldn't be done with tax dollars.

The Wichita MSA is larger and wealthier than it was in 1986.

We need several sugar daddies and mommies and I'm not sure their priorities are college football.

[shox1989]

A sales tax for college football will never happen.

Nor should it. That idea is nuts.

We are surpassing all-time levels of govt (all levels) of spending, deficits and debt.

The current economy is suffering b/c of it and wil continue to do so for some time.

The state of Kansas sales tax is going to increase by an entire penny on July 1.

I suuport the effort to bring back football, but it won't and shouldn't be done with tax dollars.

The Wichita MSA is larger and wealthier than it was in 1986.

We need several sugar daddies and mommies and I'm not sure their priorities are college football.

A sales tax certainly wouldn't be my first choice. Nor do I think we need one, we do have plenty of people with money in this town that could make it happen without any kind of tax support.

I just mention it because others have, and if that is what it takes to bring back football then I would support it.

I would definitely prefer an option without any tax increase, but to me the most important thing is bringing football back.

[RoyalShock]

I agree that a sales tax shouldn't be the 1st and isn't the best option. But it's an option. And with the snail-esque speed that these types of things move, I doubt an enacted sales tax would overlap with the increased state tax.

[tw805]

[quote="RoyalShock"]I agree that a sales tax shouldn't be the 1st and isn't the best option. But it's an option. And with the snail-esque speed that these types of things move, I doubt an enacted sales tax would overlap with the increased state tax.[/quote

That state tax isn't going away. Once government gets a little power, it's not giving it back. There will inevitably be a vote to extend it. That said, it wouldn't take much of a sales tax to generate a sizable general fund for overall university benefit.

[shockmonster]

TW805 I disagree with your comment that this 1 cent sales tax for a limited amount of time will continue. This wasn't true regarding the arena sales tax. The county hasn't continued this tax. This tax has a specific purpose. The only reason for the state sales tax was because of a crisis and the legislature put a limit on it.

The hardships placed on the disabled this year was a problem and the legislature made a decision not to make additional cuts. I have to laugh at the hyperbole. For example a local business advertised to buy your big screen TV before the new tax. A $1,000.00 TV had a tax of $10.00. If that 10 dollars kept anyone from purchasing a new TV, they couldn't afford it in the first place.

This tax like the arena tax was reasonable and I could afford it. We support business with tax monies (Sedgwick County Sports Commission) and I think that is a good tax. The tax for Sedgwick County Sports Commission won't go away but I think that this three year tax will.

[SubGod22]

Count me as someone who's also skeptical about the tax going away. There have been other times where gov't finds a way/reason to keep it. They'd rather do that than something that actually works like cutting spending and worthless/pointless programs.

[shockmonster]

It's ok to be skeptical about government. However, often people don't use facts in analyzing the matter and just paint all of government with a broad brush. They don't know how each separate governmental entity are operating.

Overall if you compare our Wichita city, Sedgwick County, and school 259 district with other comparable entities that surround them in our state, while not perfect, they operate rather efficiently.

[ABC]

I do not believe there has ever been a "temporary" state tax that went away. Ever.

The arena tax, if even just at the local level, is a huge exception to the rule. And the Sedgwick County commissioners deserve some credit.

By the way, with this new sales tax, Kansas' rate is far and away higher than all of our neighbors.

Colorado 2.9%
Kansas 6.3%
Missouri 4.225%
Nebraska 5.5%
Oklahoma 4.5%
S. Dakota 4%

Just a note that Texas' rate is 6.25%, but they don't have an income tax.

Neither does South Dakota.

Regardless, a sales tax for WSU football will never, ever happen.

[tw805]

TW805 I disagree with your comment that this 1 cent sales tax for a limited amount of time will continue. This wasn't true regarding the arena sales tax. The county hasn't continued this tax. This tax has a specific purpose. The only reason for the state sales tax was because of a crisis and the legislature put a limit on it.

The hardships placed on the disabled this year was a problem and the legislature made a decision not to make additional cuts. I have to laugh at the hyperbole. For example a local business advertised to buy your big screen TV before the new tax. A $1,000.00 TV had a tax of $10.00. If that 10 dollars kept anyone from purchasing a new TV, they couldn't afford it in the first place.

This tax like the arena tax was reasonable and I could afford it. We support business with tax monies (Sedgwick County Sports Commission) and I think that is a good tax. The tax for Sedgwick County Sports Commission won't go away but I think that this three year tax will.

You are comparing the county with the state. It's not a fair comparison. Show me a single time where the state has issued a "temporary" tax that was later rescinded. There might be one, but I can't recall it. Once you feed the beast...

As for the tax comparison with our neighbors, I believe that between our income, sales, and property taxes, we're the highest taxed state in the region. But you can still buy and hangar a corporate jet without paying a dime in taxes, so at least there's that.

[shockmonster]

Technically the county is a sub set of our state who allows them to govern. I don't think much of our federal government in Washington but I do think that our state government is conservative in nature and how it's run.

As to compare Kansas with our neighbors, I know that our schools are better at educating our kids and their roads are terrible. I'm not as concerned about our roads as people who drive so maybe we need to let them crumble too.

[ShockBand]

Not the highest in the region in total burdens, at least as calculated by The Tax Foundation. Nebraska and Oklahoma are barely higher, at least in the last year they have, 2008. Only South Dakota is significantly different (lower), the rest are all within less than a percentage of each other. Granted, our pending sales tax increase changes our numbers, but we also don't know what has been happening elsewhere.

http://www.taxfoundation.org/taxdata/show/335.html

I wouldn't want Oklahoma's school system (at least as a teacher, their salaries are horrible) and certainly wouldn't want gee-awd awful roads like some of our neighbors. That being said, knowing the I-235/Kellogg interchange project alone is about equal to half the entire year's shortfall they were trying to close was eye-opening. Our Kellogg project, along with similar type big projects around the state, are tremendously expensive.

[shox1989]

Not the highest in the region in total burdens, at least as calculated by The Tax Foundation. Nebraska and Oklahoma are barely higher, at least in the last year they have, 2008. Only South Dakota is significantly different (lower), the rest are all within less than a percentage of each other. Granted, our pending sales tax increase changes our numbers, but we also don't know what has been happening elsewhere.

http://www.taxfoundation.org/taxdata/show/335.html

I wouldn't want Oklahoma's school system (at least as a teacher, their salaries are horrible) and certainly wouldn't want gee-awd awful roads like some of our neighbors. That being said, knowing the I-235/Kellogg interchange project alone is about equal to half the entire year's shortfall they were trying to close was eye-opening. Our Kellogg project, along with similar type big projects around the state, are tremendously expensive.

That is an interesting link. It shows that the overall tax burden for Kansas state and local taxes has basically remained very steady over the years.

In fact it is less now (9.7%) than it was in 1977 (10.3%). Now being the last year on the chart, 2008 and 1977 being the first year on the chart.