Coaching

[SFL]

The hot hand wasnt Hatch either but he still plays him ALL GAME!!!!!!! ugh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Im so sick of that! He's really bad! Why Murry gets the ball to go one on one I will never know. He cant hit a free throw to save his life and he cant take anyone on the dribble anymore!!! Im so over it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Have you been boozin' it tonight?

[wusphlash]

The hot hand wasnt Hatch either but he still plays him ALL GAME!!!!!!! ugh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Im so sick of that! He's really bad! Why Murry gets the ball to go one on one I will never know. He cant hit a free throw to save his life and he cant take anyone on the dribble anymore!!! Im so over it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Actually, Hatch played the fewest minutes of anyone tonight. It is suprising that most of those minutes were OT minutes.

[1972Shocker]

After watching MSU, UNI and INS it appears to me that one of the biggest differences between them and the Shocks as that those teams generally do not beat themselves. They make you beat them.

The Shocks OTOH often shoot themselves in the foot and make a lot of unforced errors and ill-advised plays.

I suppose this comes down to discipline which should be shared by both the players and the coaching staff when it is not up to par.

[SHOXAAC]

The hot hand wasnt Hatch either but he still plays him ALL GAME!!!!!!! ugh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Im so sick of that! He's really bad! Why Murry gets the ball to go one on one I will never know. He cant hit a free throw to save his life and he cant take anyone on the dribble anymore!!! Im so over it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Graham played 17 minutes.

Toure', although 4-7 from the FT line tonight, is an 84% shooter on the year. Can't totally disagree with you about taking people to the hole, but he did have a couple of nice ones tonight, which were timely.

[Fredster]

Marshall finally got tired of Kyles and Williams playing out of control. I think he would have done the same with Ragland, but he couldn't bench all three of them. I really think we needed Kyles in OT. DW was way out of control, although he brings an offensive explosion we need. But we need him to play under control. Hatch did not play most of the second half, contrary to the previous post. He finally got back into the rotation during OT. Maybe it's time we shorten our bench. I really think Blair and Smith deserve minutes, and maybe it's time for Hatch to get less time.

This game should not have even gone to OT, much less 3OT

[ShockerFever]

That was some of the WORST coaching I have ever witnessed. Absolutely mind-boggling and bone-headed decisions.

This is the most frustrated I've felt after a win EVER.

Why did we continually run sets out of timeouts for three-point shots? At what point is shooting 3-23 or whatever it was not a sign to stop shooting those open looks that were obviously given to you by the competition? Why did we shoot all of those jump shots when we were scoring at will down low?

Can someone explain that to me?

Why was our depth not utilized in the overtime periods after the coaching staff likes to always brag about how much FREAKING DEPTH we have?

This game shouldn't even have been CLOSE. I was not that impressed with Indiana State, yet I felt we were trying to hand them over the game.

Marshall does need to take some responsibility for this. Everybody was celebrating in the post game show but this was not a "feel good" win. It certainly isn't one I'll be "talking about for a long time".

If we would have lost this one, WOW. You would have not wanted to see what would have happened with me.

[Aargh]

That was some of the WORST coaching I have ever witnessed. Absolutely mind-boggling and bone-headed decisions.

This is the most frustrated I've felt after a win EVER.

Why did we continually run sets out of timeouts for three-point shots? At what point is shooting 3-23 or whatever it was not a sign to stop shooting those open looks that were obviously given to you by the competition? Why did we shoot all of those jump shots when we were scoring at will down low?

Can someone explain that to me?

Why was our depth not utilized in the overtime periods after the coaching staff likes to always brag about how much FREAKING DEPTH we have?

This game shouldn't even have been CLOSE. I was not that impressed with Indiana State, yet I felt we were trying to hand them over the game.

Marshall does need to take some responsibility for this. Everybody was celebrating in the post game show but this was not a "feel good" win. It certainly isn't one I'll be "talking about for a long time".

If we would have lost this one, WOW. You would have not wanted to see what would have happened with me.

Amazing - Fever and I absolutely agree, except I'm more critical of the coaching than he is!!!

After destroying ISU in the first minutes of the first OT, the Shox pulled out of what they were doing and tried to run clock. That was brilliant if the plan was to let ISU back in the game.

ISu is tied for 2nd and is doing it with smoke and mirrors. That team is not that good. ISU's coaching staff is getting infinitely more out of their "talent" than WSU is getting out of theirs.

Marshall loves tall combo guards. Tall combo guards get beat on drives by smaller, quicker PG's. Winthrop didn't play against many 6' quicker than stink PG's. No one scouted Winthrop, so if there was a weakness against perimeter drives, it wasn't necessarily known or exploited. Let's hope Marshall learns that he has to have a couple of really quick guards instead of really tall guards.

Speaking of combo guards - I'm starting to dislike them. Murry has been effectively neutralized by the coaching staff. As a Fr he could do and did anything and everything. Now that he's well-versed in the system, what he's supposed to be doing changes from game to game or from minute to minute. I'm not surprised that he's not progressing and developing as a player.

I'm starting to think that Earl Grant was a major factor in Marshall's success as a head coach. This is at least the 3rd game at CKA where the opposing coach has made Marshall look like a Jr. High coach.

From what I've seen, MSU, InSU, and UNI have better coaching staffs than WSU. They're all doing it with hiring assistant coaches and recruiting budgets maybe half of what Marshall has at WSU.

I'm starting to fall off the Marshall bandwagon. He's getting outcoached by people with virtually no HC experience.

Maybe WSU has too much depth. The S16 team had almost none. Everybody knew what was required of them and what they had to do every game. Players on the curren6t team don't have that and the inconsistency might be caused by the uncertainty.

[shox1989]

The 1989 National Champion Baseball team had very little depth.

The 1981 Elite 8 Basketball team had very little depth.

I am too young to have been around to see the depth of the 1965 final 4 team, but with Stallworth gone at semester I am sure they had depth problems as well.

Depth is great, but it might be a little over rated. Having about 6 or 7 guys who can really play hard and give you all they got AND with a couple of them having that give me the ball mentality when you really need a basket at the end of a game is all you really need.

[kstarheel]

More Ben Smith. More getting Ben Smith some shots. That would work for me. Hatch could play 6 mins a game and I'd be ok with that.

[Aargh]

I don't understand the fascination with Smith. 0 points in regulation isn't much of an endorsement after he got the start.

If Smith had actually contributed something in regulation there would not have been a reason for him to end up as the hero in OT.

ISU got a ton of "hustle" rebounds that Hatch normally contests. When WSU was 1/17 from 3, Hatch had the 1.

I'm disappointed in Hatch's performance this year, but I'm not seeing where Smith is obviously a better option.

[tropicalshox]

When Grant was here I don't remember him giving much in game advice to Marshall. I saw Marshall talking mostly to Jans. I don't get to see everything so I could be off base.

[ShockTalk]

That was some of the WORST coaching I have ever witnessed. Absolutely mind-boggling and bone-headed decisions.

This is the most frustrated I've felt after a win EVER.

Why did we continually run sets out of timeouts for three-point shots? At what point is shooting 3-23 or whatever it was not a sign to stop shooting those open looks that were obviously given to you by the competition? Why did we shoot all of those jump shots when we were scoring at will down low?

Can someone explain that to me?

Why was our depth not utilized in the overtime periods after the coaching staff likes to always brag about how much FREAKING DEPTH we have?

This game shouldn't even have been CLOSE. I was not that impressed with Indiana State, yet I felt we were trying to hand them over the game.

Marshall does need to take some responsibility for this. Everybody was celebrating in the post game show but this was not a "feel good" win. It certainly isn't one I'll be "talking about for a long time".

If we would have lost this one, WOW. You would have not wanted to see what would have happened with me.

Amazing - Fever and I absolutely agree, except I'm more critical of the coaching than he is!!!

After destroying ISU in the first minutes of the first OT, the Shox pulled out of what they were doing and tried to run clock. That was brilliant if the plan was to let ISU back in the game.

ISu is tied for 2nd and is doing it with smoke and mirrors. That team is not that good. ISU's coaching staff is getting infinitely more out of their "talent" than WSU is getting out of theirs.

Marshall loves tall combo guards. Tall combo guards get beat on drives by smaller, quicker PG's. Winthrop didn't play against many 6' quicker than stink PG's. No one scouted Winthrop, so if there was a weakness against perimeter drives, it wasn't necessarily known or exploited. Let's hope Marshall learns that he has to have a couple of really quick guards instead of really tall guards.

Speaking of combo guards - I'm starting to dislike them. Murry has been effectively neutralized by the coaching staff. As a Fr he could do and did anything and everything. Now that he's well-versed in the system, what he's supposed to be doing changes from game to game or from minute to minute. I'm not surprised that he's not progressing and developing as a player.

I'm starting to think that Earl Grant was a major factor in Marshall's success as a head coach. This is at least the 3rd game at CKA where the opposing coach has made Marshall look like a Jr. High coach.

From what I've seen, MSU, InSU, and UNI have better coaching staffs than WSU. They're all doing it with hiring assistant coaches and recruiting budgets maybe half of what Marshall has at WSU.

I'm starting to fall off the Marshall bandwagon. He's getting outcoached by people with virtually no HC experience.

Maybe WSU has too much depth. The S16 team had almost none. Everybody knew what was required of them and what they had to do every game. Players on the curren6t team don't have that and the inconsistency might be caused by the uncertainty.

Aargh - I thought I was the only one who could be critical of a Shocker game after a victory? ;-)

[ShockerFever]

Aargh a double :good: to your added analysis on the coaching situation.

But as you and me agree there, I disagree with your Smith analysis. It's more than just the total points scored.

He made 66% of his shots, 66% of his 3-point shots tonight, including one absolutely back-breaking, deep freeze three, when the rest of the outside shooters were obsolete. I think some of this is to be put on Marshall. I don't think he's drawing up plays for Smith or emphasizing him as more of an offensive weapon, especially compared to other players. Marshall is putting more emphasis on other players who aren't quite getting it done as well as he is, or at least not as efficiently.

He also had 3 assists and one of two players to have ZERO turnovers.

I think if he was utilized better he would pad more stats. But then again, he's taking smart shots and not just jacking up stuff. I think that's a difference between other players who look better because they score more, yet it takes them 10-12 shots shooting 25% in doing so.

[BOBB]

The dribble drive issue is beyond my comprehension. I don't know what we'd have to give up to stop it-the stepback 3?-but I'm willing to take some different medicine jjust on principle.

I'd wager Marshall would score as well as any coach on a written test about what to do in certain scenarios. His team seems to lack the poise to execute plays and assignments when the pressure is on. That was what was frustrating about the MSU and UNI games. Luckily Indiana State wilted under pressure too. Both teams tried hard to give this one away.

[ShockTalk]

The dribble drive issue is beyond my comprehension. I don't know what we'd have to give up to stop it-the stepback 3?-but I'm willing to take some different medicine jjust on principle.

I'd wager Marshall would score as well as any coach on a written test about what to do in certain scenarios. His team seems to lack the poise to execute plays and assignments when the pressure is on. That was what was frustrating about the MSU and UNI games. Luckily Indiana State wilted under pressure too. Both teams tried hard to give this one away.

The dribble drive is really frustrating. Either players are going to have to be more responsible for stopping their own man or a better defensive rotation developed.

I have an idea! We install the dribble drive into our offense and when our opponents stop it, we'll have it on tape so we can see how to put a clamp on it. :lol:

I agree Balla. Neither team's execution at key times gave one the feeling they had any idea how to win. By the time of the start of the 3rd OT, I felt like I was at Buffalo Wild Wings and someone was signaling a guy in the back room to make things happen to continue the game.