Bracket Busters

[Kung Wu]

All this event does is eliminate a mid major from consideration. Hopefully it won't be us.

Subtract this loss and WSU is still in the NIT. This loss alone did not cost WSU an NCAA bid.
Subtract this win and VCU is also in the NIT. This win may have been the tipping point for getting VCU into the Big Dance.

Doesn't sound like an elimination game to me. :D

Subtracting that loss also means adding a big win. Still no chance after you add a top-50/100 win? Not saying we would be in, but possibly in the discussion?

[Jamar Howard 4 President]

Imagine the game was never played. My point is that without it, neither team has an atlarge resume. With it, one of them moved up and just snuck in. Those that say that Bracketbusters are nothing but a negative would make it sound like it only hurts the loser and doesn't help the winner. They would make it sound like it would have been better to just have left the date open and not played a game at all. My point is that in this case, we have 1 extra mid-major in the tournament thanks to a bracketbuster matchup.

[Capitol Shock]

Unfortunately, our game is the only example of all the bracketbuster games that were played that supports this position. We lost, we're out. St. Mary's lost, they're out. Missouri State lost, they're out. Cleveland State lost, they're out. I contend that if we would have beat VCU we'd both be out.

How many bracketbuster examples do we have where both teams that played each other made it into the tournament......ZERO.....

Bracketbusters is an elimination game for one team and possibly both that play each other. If Northern Iowa would have beat George Mason, Mason would be out as would be Northern Iowa.

[1972Shocker]

A win in BB won't guarantee you are in. But it puts you closer to being in, especially if you are one of the top games. You lose, it may or may not be the end of any at-large hopes for your team.

It all depends on your total body of work which BB makes up about 1/30th, although in the Shockers/VCU case the weight of this game definitely was more than the average game IMHO.

Not sure if it made the case for VCU, but it certainly helped them. The VCU loss in and of itself did not do the Shocks in but it certainly did not help them.

[Jamar Howard 4 President]

Unfortunately, our game is the only example of all the bracketbuster games that were played that supports this position. We lost, we're out. St. Mary's lost, they're out. Missouri State lost, they're out. Cleveland State lost, they're out. I contend that if we would have beat VCU we'd both be out.

How many bracketbuster examples do we have where both teams that played each other made it into the tournament......ZERO.....

Bracketbusters is an elimination game for one team and possibly both that play each other. If Northern Iowa would have beat George Mason, Mason would be out as would be Northern Iowa.

George Mason received an 8 seed. Do you really think changing one game's results would have dropped them past all the 9s, 10s, 11s, and 12s and entirely out of the tournament? Not a chance.

Also, remove the Valpo game from MSU's resume. They are still not atlarge worthy. It alone wasn't the reason MSU missed out.

The same thing could be said about Cleveland State. Without the loss @ ODU, they are still out because they still lacked a single top 50 win.

Bracketbusters provides opportunites. If teams fail, it is their fault. If their resume is good enough (think George Mason this year), they can sustain a loss in bracketbusters and still get a bid. Bracketbusters is only an elimination game for teams that have nearly eliminated themselves already.

[Kung Wu]

Imagine the game was never played. My point is that without it, neither team has an atlarge resume. With it, one of them moved up and just snuck in. Those that say that Bracketbusters are nothing but a negative would make it sound like it only hurts the loser and doesn't help the winner. They would make it sound like it would have been better to just have left the date open and not played a game at all. My point is that in this case, we have 1 extra mid-major in the tournament thanks to a bracketbuster matchup.

Yes, I agree that Brackbusters is generally a good thing given the current system of scheduling.

I see it like:

When two weak teams meet, nothing is gained either way.

When two marginal teams meet, one of them gets a bump in their ratings and the other is weakened.

When two very good teams meet, then neither has much to worry about regarding the outcome.

We have been in the marginal category too often lately and it's the pain the nay-sayers are feeling.[/quote]

[Capitol Shock]

I guess I should clarify....my belief is that this tournament does more to harm your chances than help.

How many teams actually benefit from participating....VCU? The win at our place didn't hurt their resume but their domination of George Mason probably had more to do with their invitation than their win over a team seeded forth in the NIT.

Remove VCU and how many examples do you have of Bracket Busters paying dividends to the point of inclusion in the NCAA tournament. None really. I bet St. Mary's is wishing they hadn't played that bracket busters game right now.

[1972Shocker]

I guess I should clarify....my belief is that this tournament does more to harm your chances than help.

As compared to what? Playing more games against cupcakes, not playing at all, or a home and home against a quality opponent (easier said than done), a one-sided deal with a highly-rated BCS opponent?

What harms your chances is losing, pure and simple. How would a win against VCU have harmed us?

[Capitol Shock]

I'll say it again, the risk is greater than the reward. If the risk is greated than the reward then why participate? Sure beating VCU would have been great...but losing to them hurt more than beating them would have helped.

[Capitol Shock]

It's the same reasoning the BCS teams use when deciding not to play solid mid majors. Beating them doesn't help them that much but lose to one and it hurts badly.

[1972Shocker]

I'll say it again, the risk is greater than the reward. If the risk is greated than the reward then why participate? Sure beating VCU would have been great...but losing to them hurt more than beating them would have helped.

No risk, no reward. That is just a fact of life. Yes we can devise schedule that guarantees we will have no non-conference losses. I doubt that will work out very well though.

Saying the risk of losing to VCU is greater than the reward is simply your opinion, which your are entitled to, but I am unaware of any empirical evidence that actually supports that statement.

[1972Shocker]

It's the same reasoning the BCS teams use when deciding not to play solid mid majors. Beating them doesn't help them that much but lose to one and it hurts badly.

Sorry, I wasn't aware that we are playing in a highly rated BCS conference.

My bad.

[Capitol Shock]

You're right...just my opinion. If I was a coach and had the option I wouldn't do it. Wouldn't necessarily make me right, just the way I would do it.

[1972Shocker]

I understand Coach Cap and I wish you well on replacing the home and home series that BB provides with something comparable.

[SHOXAAC]

I'll say it again, the risk is greater than the reward. If the risk is greated than the reward then why participate? Sure beating VCU would have been great...but losing to them hurt more than beating them would have helped.

No risk, no reward. That is just a fact of life. Yes we can devise schedule that guarantees we will have no non-conference losses. I doubt that will work out very well though.

Saying the risk of losing to VCU is greater than the reward is simply your opinion, which your are entitled to, but I am unaware of any empirical evidence that actually supports that statement.

I can not believe we are still talking about this. How on God's green earth can a team, Wichita State University...you know the one that plays in the Missouri Valley Conference, not benefit from the BB? WSU hasn't shown the ability to schedule effectively on their own unfortunately, so they need help scheduling.

At least in years, the last 2, where there is a belief a shot exists at making the NCAA tournament, a BB game allows us the chance to beat a quality team that would help make a case to the selection committee. Blame the coaches and the team on the floor for not performing when the lights shine the brightest, not the BB system. When you are given a chance to shine...shine then. If a team doesn't take advantage of that RPI boost opportunity, they don't deserve a chance at the gold at the end of the rainbow.