WSU a "major" program - Mark Turgeon

[Ricky Del Rio]

Aargh .... Some may call it 'bad luck', but to me, it was inadequate recruiting.
The coaching staff, for whatever reason, failed to recognize the potential problems in recruiting many of those players, in other words, their evaluations of the players were not up to par.

Did they research the previous or current medical problems enough, I don't think so.

Were the evaluations of their potential talent on target, for me, no. (Bangle, Green).

Which, brings to light, more questions, just what type of evaluation methods are used in determining whether a recruit is a good fit for the Shox? Did they
apply certain Scientific type methods, or do they just make a 'guess' whether they will be a good player? Is there a method to the 'Madness'?

:roll:

For years, I have been advocating a complete and thorough physcial examination at the Mayo Clinic for all prospective recruits. I have no idea how Coach Turgeon failed to see the need and benefit for this process.

[99shockalum]

To me, Turgeon went back to being a KU guy when he left WSU. Any self-respecting WSU fan can't be a KU fan.

I also don't see the "bad luck" angle, it is called recruiting. He took a lot of chances that didn't/weren't going to work out.

I'm more than happy with the upgrade at the HC position.

[Anthony2]

Mark Turgeon, such an inadequate judge and recruiter of talent he increased his winning percentage each season, won the MVC title by two games during the conference's best season in 25 years and took a program that hadn't won an NCAA Tournament game since 1981 to the Sweet 16. Amazing that he overcame his obvious limitations to do all that. I suspect once we get a real coach in here the Final Four will be a yearly destination.

[Shox151]

In all reality, recruiting is a gamble, if you sign a 5* guy, and he is hurt all the time, and never reaches his potential, is that poor recruiting, its a gamble and you lost. Conversely you could have a 2* guy at the last minute to fill a scholly that ends up being a real diamond in the rough and a great team leader, is that good recruiting, or dumb luck, or maybe a little of both. It appears that Mark was maybe willing to gamble more on the latter, and busted. But he recruited quite a few gems in his time too, Jamar, PJ, MB, Burns etc.

You can choose to believe that MT left the program worse than he recieved it, but the facts point elsewhere.

[notquiteBWing]

Mark Turgeon, such an inadequate judge and recruiter of talent he increased his winning percentage each season, won the MVC title by two games during the conference's best season in 25 years and took a program that hadn't won an NCAA Tournament game since 1981 to the Sweet 16. Amazing that he overcame his obvious limitations to do all that. I suspect once we get a real coach in here the Final Four will be a yearly destination.

word

[shocker3]

I've always been in the "middle ground" on Turgeon leaving. I've appreciated what Turgeon did for WSU and I rate him among the top 3 coaches in WSU's history. I never expected Turgeon would leave for aTm.

The coaching change left some holes, but we don't know how Turgeon would have filled them because he wasn't here to fill them. I'm confident that if Mark was still here, we'd be just as excited about the team he would have put together as we are about the team Marshall put together.

Some of the recruiting problems were just flat out bad luck. A lot of bad luck starts looking like something different, but if you were the coach, would your crystal ball have predicted this:

Zach Green - had an injury history, but would you predict it would get worse instead of better?

Calvin Walls - superb athlete. Would you have predicted he would struggle learning sets?

Kurt Bangles - All-State 6A. Would you have predicted he would decide to leave because he apparently thought he wasn't good enough for D1 ball? The limited info that came out about Bangles indicated everything other than he was asked to leave.

Chris Brown - Gatorade PoY in Arkansas. Would you have predicted he'd have a chronic back problem that would permanently affect his ability as a D1 player?

Arbry Butler - 3* super athletic player with weak HS stats on a bad HS team. Butler's recruitment appeared to be a backup plan who got an offer after a couple of players ahead of him went somewhere else. In hindsight, we still don't know if a 3* recruit was a good or bad investment of a schollie.

Ryan Bradley - Had a knee problem in HS which would correct itself as he grew into his body. Admittedly a project, but was his foot speed and dwon-court speed inherent or was it a result of his knee condition? It's reasonable to expect his foot speed, leaping ability and footwork would improve once his knees got better. Unfortunately, that didn't happen.

J.T. Durley. We will never know how his Turgeon-era play would have developed. Several injuries at a critical time in his development may have affected his attitude.

That's either a lot of bad recruiting or a lot of bad luck. We will never know which it was. Doesn't matter which it was - Turgeon made it work. Winning an MVC championship and making a S16 run in the face of that much bad luck or bad recruiting says something about what Turgeon did with what he had.

I'm even backing off the "left the cupboard bare" theme. WSU isn't a perennial national power where the name on the uniform insures that recruits compete for a chance to play for the school. When WSU loses a coach that's well-repsected, WSU is going to lose recruits.

I'm beginning to have more respect for Winthrop fans than some WSU fans. Winthrop fans support the coach who took them where they had never been - even after that coach left. Turgeon took WSU where it hadn't been for over 20 years.

I think you described the situation quite well.

It is what it is. Whether the cause is mostly bad luck or otherwise, the bottom line is we don't have much to show for the last few years of recruiting.

We have only one player with ANY playing experience over 6 foot 4 (PT). We have 2 other seniors that do have a lot of playing experience (Matt Brauer and PJ).

After that it gets really thin. We have only one junior with any playing experience- Wendall Preadom (and his experience is very limited).

And then we have only one sophomore with playing experience- Gal (quite a bit of experience for an incoming sophomore).

On top of that, these 5 guys and a bunch of newcomers have to learn a whole new system from a new coach.

You add the fact that the new coach got a late start on recruiting and we have a very dificult situation for this year.

The situation is what it is. I don't have high expectations for this year. I know that it is a rebuilding year.

But I do have high hopes for the future. GM did a great job at Marshall and I truly believe he will have a lot of sucess at WSU.

:wsu_posters:

[shox8498]

.........But I do have high hopes for the future. GM did a great job at Winthrop and I truly believe he will have a lot of sucess at WSU.

Fixed. While I agree with the entire response to Aargh's assessment, I don't think that he did quite well enough to have the university re-named after him.

[RipEmUpShox]

what a bunch of spin.

[RipEmUpShox]

Buncha BS. He's knows some people here are pissed (rightly or not) and is trying to stroke his way back into good graces. Throw your bone elsewhere! I understand what he accomplished here, and I appreciate it, but NO HELL NO I don't like the way he left and I hope Bowles flunks out!

Finallly someone isnt phony classy.

[shox1989]

I've always been in the "middle ground" on Turgeon leaving. I've appreciated what Turgeon did for WSU and I rate him among the top 3 coaches in WSU's history. I never expected Turgeon would leave for aTm.

The coaching change left some holes, but we don't know how Turgeon would have filled them because he wasn't here to fill them. I'm confident that if Mark was still here, we'd be just as excited about the team he would have put together as we are about the team Marshall put together.

Some of the recruiting problems were just flat out bad luck. A lot of bad luck starts looking like something different, but if you were the coach, would your crystal ball have predicted this:

Zach Green - had an injury history, but would you predict it would get worse instead of better?

Calvin Walls - superb athlete. Would you have predicted he would struggle learning sets?

Kurt Bangles - All-State 6A. Would you have predicted he would decide to leave because he apparently thought he wasn't good enough for D1 ball? The limited info that came out about Bangles indicated everything other than he was asked to leave.

Chris Brown - Gatorade PoY in Arkansas. Would you have predicted he'd have a chronic back problem that would permanently affect his ability as a D1 player?

Arbry Butler - 3* super athletic player with weak HS stats on a bad HS team. Butler's recruitment appeared to be a backup plan who got an offer after a couple of players ahead of him went somewhere else. In hindsight, we still don't know if a 3* recruit was a good or bad investment of a schollie.

Ryan Bradley - Had a knee problem in HS which would correct itself as he grew into his body. Admittedly a project, but was his foot speed and dwon-court speed inherent or was it a result of his knee condition? It's reasonable to expect his foot speed, leaping ability and footwork would improve once his knees got better. Unfortunately, that didn't happen.

J.T. Durley. We will never know how his Turgeon-era play would have developed. Several injuries at a critical time in his development may have affected his attitude.

That's either a lot of bad recruiting or a lot of bad luck. We will never know which it was. Doesn't matter which it was - Turgeon made it work. Winning an MVC championship and making a S16 run in the face of that much bad luck or bad recruiting says something about what Turgeon did with what he had.

I'm even backing off the "left the cupboard bare" theme. WSU isn't a perennial national power where the name on the uniform insures that recruits compete for a chance to play for the school. When WSU loses a coach that's well-repsected, WSU is going to lose recruits.

I'm beginning to have more respect for Winthrop fans than some WSU fans. Winthrop fans support the coach who took them where they had never been - even after that coach left. Turgeon took WSU where it hadn't been for over 20 years.

I think you pretty much hit the nail on the head. The situation isn't pretty but it is what we got.