WSU a "major" program - Mark Turgeon

[pinstripers]

.....

[pinstripers]

He never thought it was a major program when he was here. Perhaps it will be one now that Marshall is here.

[60Shock]

Never believe in what a successful Shocker coach ever says after departing WSU. Only believe in your interpretation of what he meant.

[C0|dB|00ded]

Never believe in what a successful Shocker coach ever says after departing WSU. Only believe in your interpretation of what he meant.

Okay Riddler, what is your interpretation. :)


T


...8)

[molly jabali]

not the riddler, but the Joker, and i'll give it a go....he got a great offer at a really good school ,which pays him more money, and he gets more exposure.he gave wsu 7 very good years, he ran a clean program, AND imho, he left us much better than he found us.

i hold NO ILL WILL...good luck, mark.

[WstateU]

He never thought it was a major program when he was here. Perhaps it will be one now that Marshall is here.

It wasn't a major program then, but it has always had the potential. MT started when the program was barely on life support and deserves a major portion of the credit for the turnaround. He was the man (with assists from JS, Don Beggs, and Charles Koch) to bring us out of the dark ages. He gave his heart and soul to WSU and probably aged 15 years for the 6 or 7 that he gave us. You could sense that he was tired and worn out and needed a change of scenery. I'm with Ricky, this horses carcass has been beat to a pulp… time to put this talk to rest and focus on the future.

We are a “Major Program” in a “Mid-Major” conference… and a damn good “Mid-Major” conference that I’m proud to be a member of. Unlike Cold, I don’t have any aspirations for moving to another conference. I want to be the dominate member of the Missouri Valley Conference… we’re knocking on the door.
:goshocks:

[BOBB]

I will restate my only real opinion of Mark Turgeon: that his face appeared to be made of clay and if one were to squeeze his cheeks or tweak his nose that their handprint would stay there until he could return home to reshape it. No one has ever unequivocably proved this to not be the case.

Now, whether he left the cupboard bare, has nice things to say about WSU, or is kind to children and animals can be debated all day. Ultimately, who cares except for A&M fans?

[RoyalShock]

I seem to recall Turgeon saying, on multiple occassions, that the expectations and pressure to win here are on the level of a major program.

I think Mark correctly spoke of two different perspectives. Among the Shocker Nation we are a major program. But from the outside, particularly to recruits, we were not. I didn't like him publically saying it, but it's hard to argue with it.

[rrshock]

I seem to recall Turgeon saying, on multiple occassions, that the expectations and pressure to win here are on the level of a major program.

I think Mark correctly spoke of two different perspectives. Among the Shocker Nation we are a major program. But from the outside, particularly to recruits, we were not. I didn't like him publically saying it, but it's hard to argue with it.

I think that someone forgot to tell Marshall that though. Which is absolutely fine with me. I think that some recruits feel WSU isn't one of the smaller schools either.

[Ricky Del Rio]

not the riddler, but the Joker, and i'll give it a go....he got a great offer at a really good school ,which pays him more money, and he gets more exposure.he gave wsu 7 very good years, he ran a clean program, AND imho, he left us much better than he found us.

i hold NO ILL WILL...good luck, mark.

Mi Dios! My hero.

[60Shock]

COLD:

Since I'm not a mind reader like some report to be, I have no reason whatsoever to doubt the honesty or sincerity of his statement.

To me this was a dead issue a long time ago, but I got suckered in once again.

Some hate his guts and can't see beyond the fact that he left us in the lurch. Others respect him for what he accomplished in reviving the program. And there are a few in the middle ground.

We're obviously fighting a dead horse as there is nothing anyone can say that is likely to change any group's opinion one way or another.

[shox1989]

..........., AND imho, he left us much better than he found us.

i hold NO ILL WILL...good luck, mark.

Let's see 5 total returning players: 1 sophomore, 1 Junior, 3 seniors. Only one player taller than 6'4" . His two best incoming recruits bail (one going with him- suspicious, the other to a friend of his- suspicious)

I don't think he could have left things much worse.

I don't hold any ill will against Mark, I liked him as a coach. But the fact is he left us in awful shape. The facts are what they are. It may take more than just one year to recover from this . We may be rebuilding not only this year but next year too. I hope not. But he could have hardly left us in any worse shape.

[The Mad Hatter]

..........., AND imho, he left us much better than he found us.

i hold NO ILL WILL...good luck, mark.

Let's see 5 total returning players: 1 sophomore, 1 Junior, 3 seniors. Only one player taller than 6'4" . His two best incoming recruits bail (one going with him- suspicious, the other to a friend of his- suspicious)

I don't think he could have left things much worse.

I don't hold any ill will against Mark, I liked him as a coach. But the fact is he left us in awful shape. The facts are what they are. It may take more than just one year to recover from this . We may be rebuilding not only this year but next year too. I hope not. But he could have hardly left us in any worse shape.

Your analysis is short-sighted. You can't talk about how a coach left a program solely based on the returning players. You have to look at the entire state of the program.

1. When MT came, WSU was coming off of two straight sub .500 seasons. When he left, the program was coming off of two seasons that had a Valley championship and Sweet 16 run one year and a "horrible season" where the team finished TWO GAMES OVER .500.

2. When MT came, WSU was not selling out season tickets and didn't have great merchandise sales. Since then, season tickets and merchandise sales have skyrocketed, which means more money for the program to reach new heights.

3. When MT came, WSU was in no position to attract a coach with a proven track record in Division I basketball, and certainly not one who had consistently won conference titles and put his teams in the NCAAs. By the time MT left, WSU was in a position to hire Marshall, and the success of the program under MT is also a large part of the reason that we can afford to pay Marshall the contract that we do.

Unless you believe that we will be a sub .500 team the next two years, then the program will be better off than it was when MT got the job, even under your theory that the number of rebuilding years determines MT legacy. But even that idea is flawed because no matter how many years it takes to rebuild, by being in a position to have Marshall as the coach and by having the funding the program now has, that rebuilding appears both inevitable and appears to have a higher ceiling than could have been imagined before MT showed up.

[top20shock]

not the riddler, but the Joker, and i'll give it a go....he got a great offer at a really good school ,which pays him more money, and he gets more exposure.he gave wsu 7 very good years, he ran a clean program, AND imho, he left us much better than he found us.

i hold NO ILL WILL...good luck, mark.

That's just about the way I feel about Mark. I wish he would smile a little bit more off the court but that's A&M's issue now and we have Marshall who is just flat out fun to talk to.

Good luck Mark, may you crush KU in the Big 12 and then get beat by WSU in the big dance. 8)

[SB Shock]

Let's see 5 total returning players: 1 sophomore, 1 Junior, 3 seniors. Only one player taller than 6'4"

Reality Test:

Turgeon 1st Year Holdovers

OJ Robinson - 6-6
Benton - 6-5
Mack - 6-8
Phillips - 5-10
Tshomba 6-5

Marshall 1st Year Holdovers

Mekel - 6-6
Cousinard - 6-4
Preadom - 6-1
Thomasson 6-7
Brauer - 5-11
Butler 6-8
Durley 6-7


Funning thing I see 7 returning players. I see 4 players taller than 6-4. With these basic errors in your analysis why should anybody respect your opinion?

In honor of RDR,

Test Question - If you were Marshall which set of players would you want to start off with? Smithson Players or Turgeon Players?