WSU a "major" program - Mark Turgeon

[shox8498]

I have absolutely no respect for the Big XII, or any other BCS conference that changes the rules to ensure that the rich get richer.

But I have all the respect in the world for Mark Turgeon.

He didn't have to say what he said to keep my respect.

Nobody booed Ralph Miller when he made an occasional return to Wichita, did they? We should be happy if MT does the same.

Granted, Turgeon has a ways to go to if he wants to step out of Ralph's shadow and rival Ralph's personal legacy.

But MT did a lot of good for Wichita State. And for now, that's all we need to concern ourselves with.

With all that said, I wish we would all stop "looking back" so much, it's not going to change where we're at now.

[Harold_Shox]

I am excited about the present and the future, but look at the recent past with fond memories.

Mark Turgeon is a stud and I wish him nothing but the best.

[RoyalShock]

Let's see 5 total returning players: 1 sophomore, 1 Junior, 3 seniors. Only one player taller than 6'4"

Reality Test:

Turgeon 1st Year Holdovers

OJ Robinson - 6-6
Benton - 6-5
Mack - 6-8
Phillips - 5-10
Tshomba 6-5

Marshall 1st Year Holdovers

Mekel - 6-6
Cousinard - 6-4
Preadom - 6-1
Thomasson 6-7
Brauer - 5-11
Butler 6-8
Durley 6-7


Funning thing I see 7 returning players. I see 4 players taller than 6-4. With these basic errors in your analysis why should anybody respect your opinion?

In honor of RDR,

Test Question - If you were Marshall which set of players would you want to start off with? Smithson Players or Turgeon Players?

A couple of minor things . . .

Mekel is 6'4".

Wasn't Tschomba a Turgeon recruit?

[TurFin]

I'm staying out of these debates.

I just want to clarify one thing. Mark and Tim Jankovich from Ill St. are not friends. The person repeating this is really off. Jank is a K State grad that only came to KU because of Bill Self. Mark and Jank only know each other on a cursory level. If you think Mark called Jank up trying to move Sampay to a "friend"...You're into conspiracy theories such as 9/11 as said before. Mark had his own set of issues he had to deal with when he moved to A&M...He didn't have time to help Sampay find a new home...Sampay had been told the best place for him was WSU.

He chose his own route.

If you wanna hold a grudge that's your right...Just don't make stuff up out of thin air to justify it.

[WstateU]

I'm staying out of these debates.

I just want to clarify one thing. Mark and Tim Jankovich from Ill St. are not friends. The person repeating this is really off. Jank is a K State grad that only came to KU because of Bill Self. Mark and Jank only know each other on a cursory level. If you think Mark called Jank up trying to move Sampay to a "friend"...You're into conspiracy theories such as 9/11 as said before. Mark had his own set of issues he had to deal with when he moved to A&M...He didn't have time to help Sampay find a new home...Sampay had been told the best place for him was WSU.

He chose his own route.

If you wanna hold a grudge that's your right...Just don't make stuff up out of thin air to justify it.

Turf, as you know we have a few morons here that love to pull things out of their rears… unfortunately, it comes with the (message board) territory.

[shockball]

Duke T was a Turgeon junior college recruit.

[SB Shock]

Let's see 5 total returning players: 1 sophomore, 1 Junior, 3 seniors. Only one player taller than 6'4"

Reality Test:

Turgeon 1st Year Holdovers

OJ Robinson - 6-6
Benton - 6-5
Mack - 6-8
Phillips - 5-10
Tshomba 6-5

Marshall 1st Year Holdovers

Mekel - 6-6
Cousinard - 6-4
Preadom - 6-1
Thomasson 6-7
Brauer - 5-11
Butler 6-8
Durley 6-7


Funning thing I see 7 returning players. I see 4 players taller than 6-4. With these basic errors in your analysis why should anybody respect your opinion?

In honor of RDR,

Test Question - If you were Marshall which set of players would you want to start off with? Smithson Players or Turgeon Players?

A couple of minor things . . .

Mekel is 6'4".

Wasn't Tschomba a Turgeon recruit?

Yeah your right on Mekel, I just transcribed it wrong from goshockers. I have no idea on Duke, but he has a cool name to throw in there. :)

[wu_shizzle]

Don't you mean _uke?

MT use to say the D was always missing.

:D

[kcshocker11]

not the riddler, but the Joker, and i'll give it a go....he got a great offer at a really good school ,which pays him more money, and he gets more exposure.he gave wsu 7 very good years, he ran a clean program, AND imho, he left us much better than he found us.

i hold NO ILL WILL...good luck, mark.

That's just about the way I feel about Mark. I wish he would smile a little bit more off the court but that's A&M's issue now and we have Marshall who is just flat out fun to talk to.

Good luck Mark, may you crush KU in the Big 12 and then get beat by WSU in the big dance. 8)

i'll second that! Thats the way I feel too. :posterwu: 8) 8)

[Fatguy]

FINALLY... some common sense on this boad. Thanks for the reality check SBShock

[Ta town]

This conversation is retarded

[Aargh]

I've always been in the "middle ground" on Turgeon leaving. I've appreciated what Turgeon did for WSU and I rate him among the top 3 coaches in WSU's history. I never expected Turgeon would leave for aTm.

The coaching change left some holes, but we don't know how Turgeon would have filled them because he wasn't here to fill them. I'm confident that if Mark was still here, we'd be just as excited about the team he would have put together as we are about the team Marshall put together.

Some of the recruiting problems were just flat out bad luck. A lot of bad luck starts looking like something different, but if you were the coach, would your crystal ball have predicted this:

Zach Green - had an injury history, but would you predict it would get worse instead of better?

Calvin Walls - superb athlete. Would you have predicted he would struggle learning sets?

Kurt Bangles - All-State 6A. Would you have predicted he would decide to leave because he apparently thought he wasn't good enough for D1 ball? The limited info that came out about Bangles indicated everything other than he was asked to leave.

Chris Brown - Gatorade PoY in Arkansas. Would you have predicted he'd have a chronic back problem that would permanently affect his ability as a D1 player?

Arbry Butler - 3* super athletic player with weak HS stats on a bad HS team. Butler's recruitment appeared to be a backup plan who got an offer after a couple of players ahead of him went somewhere else. In hindsight, we still don't know if a 3* recruit was a good or bad investment of a schollie.

Ryan Bradley - Had a knee problem in HS which would correct itself as he grew into his body. Admittedly a project, but was his foot speed and dwon-court speed inherent or was it a result of his knee condition? It's reasonable to expect his foot speed, leaping ability and footwork would improve once his knees got better. Unfortunately, that didn't happen.

J.T. Durley. We will never know how his Turgeon-era play would have developed. Several injuries at a critical time in his development may have affected his attitude.

That's either a lot of bad recruiting or a lot of bad luck. We will never know which it was. Doesn't matter which it was - Turgeon made it work. Winning an MVC championship and making a S16 run in the face of that much bad luck or bad recruiting says something about what Turgeon did with what he had.

I'm even backing off the "left the cupboard bare" theme. WSU isn't a perennial national power where the name on the uniform insures that recruits compete for a chance to play for the school. When WSU loses a coach that's well-repsected, WSU is going to lose recruits.

I'm beginning to have more respect for Winthrop fans than some WSU fans. Winthrop fans support the coach who took them where they had never been - even after that coach left. Turgeon took WSU where it hadn't been for over 20 years.

[pinstripers]

While I certainly appreciate what MT did for the program, and we agree on that, I don't have the same view of his recruiting as you do. I read your comments with interest, however. My opinon was (and is), that it seems almost bizarre to read of MT's major/mid-major comments now that he has moved on; when all we heard prior to his leaving, was that God-forsaken "at this level" tune. That's all.

[60Shock]

A great recap on recruiting, Aargh. I'm sure virtually every school could list somewhat similar results concerning recruits who look like they can't miss, but then never come close to reaching their hyped up potential.

Still, it seems like through the many years, we have had a lot more than our fair share.

Hopefully, with GM, he will be able to recruit the better athlete and our percentages of players developing to their potential will improve significantly.

[Snapshot9]

Aargh .... Some may call it 'bad luck', but to me, it was inadequate recruiting.
The coaching staff, for whatever reason, failed to recognize the potential problems in recruiting many of those players, in other words, their evaluations of the players were not up to par.

Did they research the previous or current medical problems enough, I don't think so.

Were the evaluations of their potential talent on target, for me, no. (Bangle, Green).

Which, brings to light, more questions, just what type of evaluation methods are used in determining whether a recruit is a good fit for the Shox? Did they
apply certain Scientific type methods, or do they just make a 'guess' whether they will be a good player? Is there a method to the 'Madness'?