National Championship

[rayc]

melcong4 wrote:
Does anyone else have the feeling that Marshall will take the Shox to a National Championship within the next 5-10 years?

Seems you are outnumbered here, so let me join your side. Yes, I believe that if Marshall is at WSU for 10 years, we will have been to more than 1 final 4 and probably have a national championship.

A national championship should be the Shocker’s goal every year, and I suspect it is for coach Marshall. He could have stayed at Winthrop if his goal was simply to make the NCAA tournament. That doesn’t mean he believes he has a great chance any particular year, but I’m confident that is still his goal.

Any goal but the national title defines your program as a mid-major, at least to me. I suspect without that as your goal, you will never win a national championship. Too much complacency sets in once your goal is reached to continue to be successful against good teams still striving to reach theirs. Plus, your goals are what drive your recruiting. Ask Gene Stephenson if his goal each year is to win the MVC championship. I seriously doubt it, a steppingstone perhaps, but a goal, never.

I know that a lot of folks like to justify their belief by asking “who was the last team to win without a lottery pick player?” Personally, I would say Florida, certainly the first championship team at least.

Prior to the first championship, none of the Florida “lottery picks” were considered in that category. It was their play at the end of that year and during the NCAA tournament that elevated them to that status. That doesn’t seem out of the ordinary to me. To me at least, the correct question would be: What was the last team that won the national championship with a hyped “lottery pick” recruit? I haven’t the foggiest idea.

But in any case, GO SHOCKS!!

All just my humble opinion, of course.

[BostonWu]

Not following your Florida answer? They certainly were as talented as anyone in the country. And I don't believe the talent was overhyped. NBA scouts know what they're doing in player evaluation.

Maybe I misunderstood your answer?

[Ricky Del Rio]

Where can I get a cup of that black and yellow Kool Ade? Or is it black and gold Kool Ade?

Some of this talk reminds me of the Doggie talk on the Valley board.

[BOBB]

There's a lot of great coachs that never won a NC. I takes a great coach, great players and there's usually some lucky bounces too. I'm a tremendous fan of GM, but we're so far from talking about that. I think GM has the ability to possibly be in time the best coach WSU has had, but I know even that is premature. Lute Olson has taken the Cats to the Dance for something like 28 straight years, 4 final fours, countless sweet sixteens and still only one NC. Those last 5 or 6 games are against good teams that are on a roll. One off night by one of your best players and you're out.

I think this is a great post. Can WSU win a national championship? Of course. But, look up the road to KU. They have had countless great teams, great players and great coaches since 1988 and no championships. Like Gar said, you have to have great talent, great coaching and great luck. Right now we're picked 7th in the Valley. Let's push that boulder first.

[SubGod22]

I do agree that the National Championship should be the goal. That doesn't mean we'll definitely get there or win one, but aiming lower than that is just dumb. Time will tell, but I'm not happy with just reaching the NCAAs. Doing something while there is what it's all about.

[ABC]

I do believe that Gregg Marshall is a man who could coach a team to win a national championship. The question is, can Coach Marshall recruit the type of players HERE that could win a national championship. It's all about recruiting. Can Wichita State become a desirable place for "lottery-pick" type talent? Can Coach Marshall get those kind of players to come here?

If there are 50 top recruits in the country, and you're not getting any of them, someone else IS getting them. Name the last team that won a national championship without any "lottery pick" type players. Now name the last "lottery pick" player that Wichita State had. Xavier McDaniel led the ENTIRE COUNTRY in points and rebounding in his senior year here. Get us some more players like that, and then we can talk about national championships.

Maryland in 2003/04 didn't have any McDonald's all-americans. To my knowledge they had/have just 2 players to make it in the NBA, Steve Blake and Juan Dixon, neither of which was a lottery pick. But they are the exception.

[KC Shox]

Re: National Championship

Does anyone else have the feeling that Marshall will take the Shox to a National Championship within the next 5-10 years?

Does anyone else have the feeling that this guy must have been smoking crack when he posted this topic? First, GM won't be here for more than 5 years (assumming his plan works out, makes this team a consistent 20 game winner every year and makes the NCAA Tourney as well).

If his plan works, BCS programs will be a callin'. Lastly and more important, no matter how well we do, WSU will never be able to recruit the 4/5 star atheletes National Champion Teams do.

[C0|dB|00ded]

Re: National Championship

Does anyone else have the feeling that Marshall will take the Shox to a National Championship within the next 5-10 years?

Does anyone else have the feeling that this guy must have been smoking crack when he posted this topic? First, GM won't be here for more than 5 years (assumming his plan works out, makes this team a consistent 20 game winner every year and makes the NCAA Tourney as well).

If his plan works, BCS programs will be a callin'. Lastly and more important, no matter how well we do, WSU will never be able to recruit the 4/5 star atheletes National Champion Teams do.

This post wasn't necessary. You are not a real Shocker fan (and have no grasp of Shocker history) to let these words cross your lips.


T


...8)

[60Shock]

We've won two sloppy exhibition games and we're dreaming about winning National Championships? Now that's a reach.

We've got to start being the confernce champ and/or win the tournament, and consistently get to the NCAA tournament to start attracting the top recruits.

Just how many schools have won the NCAA's that didn't win eitherwin their conf. championship or tourney? The percentage can't be high.

But, I firmly belive that you should never put a man's dream down. And the most important man whom I'm sure has this same dream is GM. But we've got to give him time to put it together. Lots of years.

It was mentioned earlier that would need two top 50 players. Agree, or three top 100. In either case, we would still need a supporting cast equal to nothing less that our starting teams of the last five years. You've got to have role players - two go-to guys, the deadly 3-point shooter, and a point guard who can run down the clock and hit FTs when fouled. And no key injuries.

But, the key ingredient is LUCK. We had two teams in the past (one led by Stallworth and the other led by the Antoine Carr, Levingston, and the X-Man) who without bad luck or circumstances could have won it all. In the former case, Stallworth became ineligible and our center didn't make the grades. In the latter, we were on probation, resulting in Levingston turning pro and Carr was injured.

Let's hope when GM starts putting such a quality team together, Lady Luck, for a change, will be on our side. She owes us.

[forevershockerfan]

What if----Stallworth and Bowman would have played at the Dance their Senior year when we made the Final 4? What if---we would have been eligible to even play at the Dance the year we beat the Soviet Union without A. Carr. What if, we would have beat George Mason here in Wichita like we should of? Then they would have never had an invite to the Dance.
So what about now? Most anything conceivable is possible, but how feasible? Right now, getting to the Dance on a regular basis is paramount of us to even remotley dream of this being a reality. However, what if Coach Marshall gives us at least 7 years and we make it to the Dance most of those years? Then the Elite 8 and even the Final 4 is possible if every solitary good thing and break went our way. If George Mason made it to the Final 4, then why can't we?

[rayc]

BostonWu:

Not following your Florida answer? They certainly were as talented as anyone in the country. And I don't believe the talent was overhyped. NBA scouts know what they're doing in player evaluation.

Maybe I misunderstood your answer?

Well, my writing is never as clear as it should be, especially after celebrating the USMC birthday, sorry about that!

That comment was made in response to what I sensed was an attitude that you can’t win a national title without a couple of “lottery pick” players.

I suspect that by “lottery pick” players, most are actually referring to the highly hyped, one and done, “lottery pick” recruits that everyone would love to see WSU’s name next to in the publications. I don’t know but I suspect most of those are not around long enough to see a national championship

My point was that most actual “lottery picks” gain that status from the pro scouts after a great year or NCAA tournament, not before. Neither Noah nor Horeford were considered “lottery pick” recruits out of High School. Both were highly thought of, primarily because of their height and potential (sound familiar?), but neither was considered anywhere near ready for a jump straight to the pros.

In fact, Noah was quite erratic during the first championship season (many wondered why he was even starting) and Horeford so quiet you tended to forget he was playing. Noah’s status shot through the roof largely due to his performance in the first NCAA championship tournament. Horeford’s status came during the second season and tournament.

That’s why when someone asks, who was the last team to win a national championship without a “lottery pick” player or two, my reply is Florida. At least the first championship team had no “lottery pick” players until after the tournament.

[rayc]

Ricky Del Rio:

Where can I get a cup of that black and yellow Kool Ade? Or is it black and gold Kool Ade?

Some of this talk reminds me of the Doggie talk on the Valley board.

Actually it has nothing to do with Kool Ade, tinted glasses or any such thing and it applies to any school/program not just WSU.

In melcong4’s exuberance he simply asked if anyone else thought Coach Marshall would win a national title at WSU. At least he included a 5-10 year time frame. Certainly he can.

The key to me at least, is as KC Shox alluded to, how long Marshall remains at WSU. The fact that he has turned down at least one BCS program paying as much as WSU offered him gives me hope that he won’t jump ship just for a BCS offer. My thoughts and opinions are based, as previously stated, on a 10 year run at WSU. Had melcong4 approached the question from a different angle, I think most on this board would be in agreement with him.

What if instead, the question was “Do you think it is possible for a #3/#4 seeded team to win a national championship?” Does anyone honestly believe that is an unlikely occurrence or possibility??

The next question is “Do you think it is possible for Coach Marshall to put together a legitimate top 15 or so team?” The answer really comes down to your opinion of the coach’s ability to recruit/coach and the state of the program. I think most here not only think it possible, they expect him to do just that. I certainly do.

Well, if you are putting together top 15 teams, you are going to be in the tournament, and you are going to be getting #4 seeds or better.

My belief is that Marshall’s goal is to win the title, which puts us way, way ahead of those teams who make the tournament dreaming about a win or two, or god forbid, gasp!, an elite 8.

Will he win a national title here? Who knows, as many have pointed out there are so many things that have to fall just right to win a single elimination tournament. But, can he, oh yes, most definitely, and I think that with a 10 year run he will.

As always, just my humble opinion.

[Sundevil Shox]

GM

NFW

We will be lucky to find the the three letter postseason tourney this year and next is a total crapshoot.

[shocker22]

We will make the NIT at a minimum. Coach will get us winning and next year we will be even better.

[KBShocker]

Top 50 is too narrow thinking -- thats the way it used to be. Today there are players in the 50-100 list that can be the types to take a school to the Final Four. Thats because there are a lot more quality players than their used to be. The key is getting team players that work well together plus a coach who has a solid fundamental structure. We've got the coach, now just be patient and let him get the players.