Ehimen Orukpe versus Garrett Stutz

[MTXE]

Want to know a player that took a redshirt in the middle of their career?

How about Dimna Odiakosa

Is that the truth? How ironic.

I would suspect that Dimna is a very humble fella. What an excellent example of a project turned success. Give me the number to his big-man coach right away!

[The Mad Hatter]

Want to know a player that took a redshirt in the middle of their career?

How about Dimna Odiakosa

Is that the truth? How ironic.

I would suspect that Dimna is a very humble fella. What an excellent example of a project turned success. Give me the number to his big-man coach right away!

Yes it is true. Marshall has used the Odiakosa example as a parallel for EO. Both will have come into their respective programs with enormous physical upside, but needing a lot of polish to their game to be effective players.

If you think that someone considering giving up on Odiakosa early in his career is "idiotic" (when he looked really bad on the court and couldn't put up any good stats at all), what might that have to teach you about giving up on the potential of other young post players?

For comparison's sake, let's compare Odiakosa as a freshman to Garrett (can't compare their second years since Odiakosa was redshirting).

Odiakosa:
Points Per Game: 1.3
Rebounds Per Game: 2.1
FG%: .310
FT%: .429

Stutz:
Points Per Game: 4.2
Rebounds Per Game: 2.6
FG%: .471
FT%: .686

[MTXE]

OK, MTXE, I get it. You don't like white guys. You've gone after Hatch, Stutz incessantly, even Marshall. When are you gonna start criticizing Felter, Mayes, and Brown. You might as well go "all in". We all know the hand you're holding any way.

MTXE, have you waqtched any of TRCC's games this year? They've got a video feed on the net. EO has a lot of upside, but he's a legit 5 points, 5 boards juco center right now. Which isn't much for an athletic 7' guy.

EO a smarter player than GS? That's probably the most ignorant statement I've seen on SN - and that's saying a lot. EO is (and looks like) a guy playing his first year of anything we would recognize as "organized" basketball. What's played in Nigeria uses a round ball, dribbling, and a 10' basket, but that's about the extent of what we'd recognize as basketball.

"OK, MTXE, I get it. You don't like white guys. You've gone after Hatch, Stutz incessantly, even Marshall."

I don't believe I have ever gone after Hatch? I have always liked Hatch. He is the hardest worker on our team.

"MTXE, have you waqtched any of TRCC's games this year? They've got a video feed on the net. EO has a lot of upside, but he's a legit 5 points, 5 boards juco center right now. Which isn't much for an athletic 7' guy."

I watched a video where he impacted the game every minute he was in. I watched him block or altered nearly every shot the opposing team threw up that was within 15 feet of the basket. This was probably one of the first organized games he had played in his life. I think you need to further contemplate my comments on the possible advantages of playing against true post-men and not oversized guards before you start to cement your thoughts on EO's potential.

"EO a smarter player than GS? That's probably the most ignorant statement I've seen on SN - and that's saying a lot."

If you are going to attack someone's intelligence, make absolutely certain you do not commit any of the following: grammatical errors, reading comprehension bugaboos, or logical fallacies.

Did I ever say EO was a smarter 'player' than GS at this point? I said EO is smarter - period. Are you aware of EO's academic accolades? I suppose you aren't or you wouldn't have taken this route of attack. Questioning EO's intelligence (in any way) is a sure sign of ignorance regarding the issue at hand.

Athleticism AND intelligence are the marquee signs of a top-tier college player. Lawrence Hill showed us what that was all about in the CBI last year. EO has intelligence and athleticism AND height. These are three things that really can't be taught. All he needs is the final two ingredients - experience and hard work - and he will be a superstar.

[ShockerFever]

If we had a separate forum about Garret Stutz Discussion Only, I''m quite certain that's the only place MTXE would be.

It has become apparent that 95% of MTXE's postings have to do with his obsession with GS and the other 5% with an occasional negative blurb about Shocker basketball in general.

[MTXE]

Want to know a player that took a redshirt in the middle of their career?

How about Dimna Odiakosa

Is that the truth? How ironic.

I would suspect that Dimna is a very humble fella. What an excellent example of a project turned success. Give me the number to his big-man coach right away!

Yes it is true. Marshall has used the Odiakosa example as a parallel for EO. Both will have come into their respective programs with enormous physical upside, but needing a lot of polish to their game to be effective players.

If you think that someone considering giving up on Odiakosa early in his career is "idiotic" (when he looked really bad on the court and couldn't put up any good stats at all), what might that have to teach you about giving up on the potential of other young post players?

For comparison's sake, let's compare Odiakosa as a freshman to Garrett (can't compare their second years since Odiakosa was redshirting).

Odiakosa:
Points Per Game: 1.3
Rebounds Per Game: 2.1
FG%: .310
FT%: .429

Stutz:
Points Per Game: 4.2
Rebounds Per Game: 2.6
FG%: .471
FT%: .686

Numbers don't tell the entire story.

If you take an Odiakosa and a Stutz and have them stand side by side, you are fairly certain that you have one athlete and one big person. If you have them run a line-drill, you are 100% certain you have one athlete and one big person.

You know immediately when you sign an Odiakosa that you don't give up on him. He's built like a brick.. you know the rest.

I haven't given up on Stutz, but he is going to have to develop a tremendous amount of skill to make up for his lack of athleticism. Things have been and will continue to be hard for him. He needs to have a picture of Graham Hatch on his wall as a role model.

Of course he could always just bulk up to 280 like coach has mentioned and pull an Egoslider. The downside is - with his body type - he will be a slower, less 'hoppy' version of himself at 280.

[MTXE]

If we had a separate forum about Garret Stutz Discussion Only, I''m quite certain that's the only place MTXE would be.

It has become apparent that 95% of MTXE's postings have to do with his obsession with GS and the other 5% with an occasional negative blurb about Shocker basketball in general.

I am greatly concerned with GS's development. A dominant Stutz = tremendous post-season success for WSU. His signing was a very exciting story and I have followed him closely.

[OKC Shocker]

If we had a separate forum about Garret Stutz Discussion Only, I''m quite certain that's the only place MTXE would be.

It has become apparent that 95% of MTXE's postings have to do with his obsession with GS and the other 5% with an occasional negative blurb about Shocker basketball in general.

I am greatly concerned with GS's development. A dominant Stutz = tremendous post-season success for WSU. His signing was a very exciting story and I have followed him closely.

Gotta love being attacked for partaking in a message board and not having only positive things to say.

[Aargh]

OK, MTXE, I get it. You don't like white guys. You've gone after Hatch, Stutz incessantly, even Marshall. When are you gonna start criticizing Felter, Mayes, and Brown. You might as well go "all in". We all know the hand you're holding any way.

MTXE, have you waqtched any of TRCC's games this year? They've got a video feed on the net. EO has a lot of upside, but he's a legit 5 points, 5 boards juco center right now. Which isn't much for an athletic 7' guy.

EO a smarter player than GS? That's probably the most ignorant statement I've seen on SN - and that's saying a lot. EO is (and looks like) a guy playing his first year of anything we would recognize as "organized" basketball. What's played in Nigeria uses a round ball, dribbling, and a 10' basket, but that's about the extent of what we'd recognize as basketball.

"OK, MTXE, I get it. You don't like white guys. You've gone after Hatch, Stutz incessantly, even Marshall."

I don't believe I have ever gone after Hatch? I have always liked Hatch. He is the hardest worker on our team.

"MTXE, have you waqtched any of TRCC's games this year? They've got a video feed on the net. EO has a lot of upside, but he's a legit 5 points, 5 boards juco center right now. Which isn't much for an athletic 7' guy."

I watched a video where he impacted the game every minute he was in. I watched him block or altered nearly every shot the opposing team threw up that was within 15 feet of the basket. This was probably one of the first organized games he had played in his life. I think you need to further contemplate my comments on the possible advantages of playing against true post-men and not oversized guards before you start to cement your thoughts on EO's potential.

"EO a smarter player than GS? That's probably the most ignorant statement I've seen on SN - and that's saying a lot."

If you are going to attack someone's intelligence, make absolutely certain you do not commit any of the following: grammatical errors, reading comprehension bugaboos, or logical fallacies.

Did I ever say EO was a smarter 'player' than GS at this point? I said EO is smarter - period. Are you aware of EO's academic accolades? I suppose you aren't or you wouldn't have taken this route of attack. Questioning EO's intelligence (in any way) is a sure sign of ignorance regarding the issue at hand.

Athleticism AND intelligence are the marquee signs of a top-tier college player. Lawrence Hill showed us what that was all about in the CBI last year. EO has intelligence and athleticism AND height. These are three things that really can't be taught. All he needs is the final two ingredients - experience and hard work - and he will be a superstar.

[The Mad Hatter]

Want to know a player that took a redshirt in the middle of their career?

How about Dimna Odiakosa

Is that the truth? How ironic.

I would suspect that Dimna is a very humble fella. What an excellent example of a project turned success. Give me the number to his big-man coach right away!

Yes it is true. Marshall has used the Odiakosa example as a parallel for EO. Both will have come into their respective programs with enormous physical upside, but needing a lot of polish to their game to be effective players.

If you think that someone considering giving up on Odiakosa early in his career is "idiotic" (when he looked really bad on the court and couldn't put up any good stats at all), what might that have to teach you about giving up on the potential of other young post players?

For comparison's sake, let's compare Odiakosa as a freshman to Garrett (can't compare their second years since Odiakosa was redshirting).

Odiakosa:
Points Per Game: 1.3
Rebounds Per Game: 2.1
FG%: .310
FT%: .429

Stutz:
Points Per Game: 4.2
Rebounds Per Game: 2.6
FG%: .471
FT%: .686

Numbers don't tell the entire story.

If you take an Odiakosa and a Stutz and have them stand side by side, you are fairly certain that you have one athlete and one big person. If you have them run a line-drill, you are 100% certain you have one athlete and one big person.

You know immediately when you sign an Odiakosa that you don't give up on him. He's built like a brick.. you know the rest.

I haven't given up on Stutz, but he is going to have to develop a tremendous amount of skill to make up for his lack of athleticism. Things have been and will continue to be hard for him. He needs to have a picture of Graham Hatch on his wall as a role model.

Of course he could always just bulk up to 280 like coach has mentioned and pull an Egoslider. The downside is - with his body type - he will be a slower, less 'hoppy' version of himself at 280.

Numbers don't tell the entire story.

The numbers also don't tell that Stutz has a 4" height advantage. You even admit that Eglseder (who came into UNI slower and with less ball handling skill than Stutz) turned into an effective player by being a 7 footer with bulk.

In the end your own post demonstrates that what unifies both Odiakosa and Eglseder, as different as they were coming into college, is that being an effective big man takes time for a lot of guys.

[shockar25]

Bottom line is, if Stutz isn't a valuable asset, the coaches will know far more than any of us do. So far, we've only seen HCGM display minor dissatisfaction with Garrett's efforts. From listening to coach talk, I don't get the feeling Garrett is 'way behind schedule'. Ultimately he knows Garrett's ability and potential much better than we do.

I still think his #1 problem is confidence. When he played against Iowa he had confidence and he also has a couple of times since then. Since his little knee problem his confidence definitely has declined. He will have to decide to get after it and only he can. Hopefully he will, and maybe a year of redshirt would help him tremendously.

I see nothing but positives in redshirting him. That will leave us with 2 years of a more mature and seasoned Stutz which will also mean he and EO will graduate the same year--even better.

EO hasn't shown a whole lot of anything yet. As I understand it he's pretty foul prone and is extremely raw offensively. Sure there's potential, but both of them have that. Hopefully they'll both reach their potentials.

[SFL]

OK, MTXE, I get it. You don't like white guys. You've gone after Hatch, Stutz incessantly, even Marshall. When are you gonna start criticizing Felter, Mayes, and Brown. You might as well go "all in". We all know the hand you're holding any way.

MTXE, have you waqtched any of TRCC's games this year? They've got a video feed on the net. EO has a lot of upside, but he's a legit 5 points, 5 boards juco center right now. Which isn't much for an athletic 7' guy.

EO a smarter player than GS? That's probably the most ignorant statement I've seen on SN - and that's saying a lot. EO is (and looks like) a guy playing his first year of anything we would recognize as "organized" basketball. What's played in Nigeria uses a round ball, dribbling, and a 10' basket, but that's about the extent of what we'd recognize as basketball.

Anyone watching the women's game on Cox 22? I'm sure MTXE is foaming at the mouth.

:D

[MTXE]

In the end your own post demonstrates that what unifies both Odiakosa and Eglseder, as different as they were coming into college, is that being an effective big man takes time for a lot of guys.

Correct, but while that ancillary point was made, I considered it obvious. At 'our level' we don't get 7 foot dominating centers right out of the box.

I was trying to discuss the evaluation of a big man and how one might attribute value. Okiakosa has immediate physiology that you can't ignore.

Garrett Stutz was supposed to be coming in, not just as a 7 footer, but a 7 footer with special skills at his stage of development (that's why Kentucky was interested right?). So far his special skills have been that he can nail his free throws and the occasional three pointer. His points in the paint have appeared accidental thus far.

I really believe that adapting to the speed of D1 ball is what has eluded him to this point. Every true freshman has to grasp it. Smaller players have an easier time. Bigger players who are fast (athletic) would logically be next. And then you have the slower big players.

Now that I think about it, HCGM hit the nail on the head from the very start. Stutz needs to be playing at 280 period. He is not a high-flying centerman. Nor is he a whirling dervish in the paint. Is he supposed to be another Eaglesipper? I hope not. I don't care how many points Eglseder scores, I get ill watching him play.

[The Mad Hatter]

I don't care how many points Eglseder scores, I get ill watching him play.

I don't know if you are Cold or not, but you sure sound like him here. Both of you prefer form over function. Personally, I care about performance and would rather have Eglseder than Casey Crawford.

[BOBB]

While Col...er...MTXE is hyperbolic as usual, I don't think anyone is being honest with themselves in saying they're not disappointed in Stutz's progress. If EO is better than Stutz next year that's going to say a lot more about Stutz than EO.

It's unfortunate, because I'd love to see Durley at the "4," but you can't play Stutz any significant minutes.

[1979Shocker]

I don't care how many points Eglseder scores, I get ill watching him play.

I don't know if you are Cold or not, but you sure sound like him here. Both of you prefer form over function. Personally, I care about performance and would rather have Eglseder than Casey Crawford.

MTXE isn't Cold. Cold knew how to use the "quote" function, MTXE doesn't.